5 Commandments, Bottom Line Kinda Stuff!

the thing is you can do everything consistently and still have sales fail. what worked great last year, may not work at all this year. the economy changes etc. but there is also secrets, it would be quite ideal to tell people the exact tricks of the trade or you may have all your business taken from you.

if i had to add anything -- only upload quality. it should be as good as the stuff you see for sale - and not just something you deemed quality by an unknown standard. the image should take you inside of it, you should want to be there to hold the dog, to eat the food, to climb the tree etc. if its not at that level at the very least, chances are you won't sell too much at all.

don't rely on people stating that their snap shots sell until you look at the rest of the work - something is often supporting them that brings in the customers. base it on your own judgement - is this something you would buy yourself? your own work? or is it something you would pass on by and look at the one next to it?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Thanks Rich - following ...

Take a look at Cynthia's thread also. https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=3281102

Great idea Rich!

Your biggie..."start an outside FAA website" is something I know I need, and do have, but I struggle with what to do with it. It's for google, I get it. I've tried blogging, but it seems weird to type out a bunch of words about my imagery. After all, a picture is worth a thousand words, right?

I'm interested in the "what" as far as the outside website goes, and how other artists and particularly photographers utilize their sites.

Rich, your suggestion of a stand-alone, independent website is a huge plus. That would be my #1 of your five "biggies."

I have four such websites in development and plan to greatly expand them this year. If something ever happens to FAA (Sean will sell one day) and the results not being good - you can simply change links on your own site and business will continue.

A separate site is also good for SEO. You can write what you want about each of your produsts - and it won't show up under three (or more) different URLs, as it does here. Attach a "blog" section to your site - and YOU own the content. If you write and post blog content somewhere else and that "somewhere else" goes away - so does your hard work and SEO advantage.

Here is a sample of one of mine external websites for one of my "niche" subjects: http://www.fortmchenry.net/

My #2 is to develop a Facebook "Page" to support each of those niche sites. Here is a sample of one for my Assateague Pony niche: https://www.facebook.com/AssateaguePony/ - I started that in late March and it has 770 "Likes" thus far.

My #3 is to develop a Twitter account for each niche: Here is a sample of one I started a couple years back: https://twitter.com/OceanCity

My #4 is likely the most difficult: Keep each of the above growing and updated (fresh content).

#5 Lather, rinse, repeat.

There are likely many other #s that other people can suggest.

---------------
~ Bill
BillSwartwout.com

Abbie,

Yes, good info, but looking more for "bullet points" kinda stuff, not long threads, which most people won't read or finish reading......

Andrew,

Yes, like you and me, MOST of us KNOW what needs to be done, just getting there is the trick. Want to get a few short "must do's", things that absolutely need to happen first and then we can arrange them by importance and then maybe discuss each "bullet point" item, individually.

I think, when we gab about the bullet points and then put them in order of importance, at the top might be "buy a domain name", which will be needed to create this separate web site that will point back to FAA/Pixels.....and in my case, Pixels......

RIch

Bill,

Great stuff!

Am thinking about having the same website as your's with a few images on the actual website and then the "to see more, click here". I have a bunch of domain names and have that part ready, just need to get somebody to set up the site itself and then I'll load up a few images, Corvettes, Camaros, Ford stuff, hot rods, etc. Some verbiage and should be ready to go!

Your Twitter feed looks good too and can you see sales coming from there? I got more than 1,000 images up on Pinterest and so far, nada!!! On to Twitter I guess???

Rich

Yup, hence saying to read it as well as this one. Both will be good advice

Bill, I never really thought of a website to market my photgraphy in those terms. Seems like you are on to it too Rich.

I just go with APachecoPhotos.com no niche stuff, just this guy who does fine art and nature photography. I do like the idea of building a marketing site around several different subjects that I shoot.

Bill, great post. It seems like a lot of work, but thank you for telling us where the effort needs to go.

Since I'm clueless, I'll just say that I signed up on FAA to avoid all the work, and yet I think what Bill's advice is key. I especially like the Lather, rinse and repeat. So funny. I can't wait to retire to do all this, but the rules will change by then.

Wondering out loud here, but maybe the VERY FIRST Commandment would be something like this for newbies

"FAA should be considered a fulfillment center for prints and products and does NOTHING for YOU to help market or sell your images. That is ALL up to YOU! Joining and uploading images to this site, has NO effect on you selling those images!"

Seems every week or even more often, members, new members post something to the effect, "I've been here 3 months now and NO SALES! What AM I DOING WRONG?". Clearly, they don't fully understand the purpose of this site and were led to believe, that just upload a few images and start making some money. This initial statement might help those people,
Rich

Bill,

I see that your website, is a Wordpress one and I guess a BLOG template? Do you think that is a good example of what we're discussing, to attract Mr. Google's eyeballs? Does it technically NEED to be an actual website?
My thought process is to create 2 "somethings", one for my cars and then the other for my non-car stuff, and then direct them both back to my Pixels site.....
Rich

Rich, today's Wordpress is considered more a content management system (CMS) rather than just blog software. I am currently building a business checks website - to sell products - with that same exact template. When care is used in constructing posts and pages in the CMS there is, indeed, good SEO. Example: try a Bing search for - Fort McHenry Pictures. Then try just - Fort McHenry - (might be on page 2 of the SERPs - hopefully working its way to page one later this summer). It should do better in Google once I convert it to https (secured site) - and I get to building pages for a ton of content and images that I am gathering.

establish an "outside of FAA Web site"

Thats something I have thought about doing recently, but not got round to yet. The starting point is presumably buying a domain name to use with the web site. There seems to be a lot more options available these days for the end part of the domain name, eg, .website .store .shop .site .photography, as well as the more usual .com .co.uk etc. Some of these options are more expensive than others (for initial purchase, and subsequent renewal costs for the domain name), so, are there really any potential benefits to buying a more expensive domain extension, or would something more basic be equally as good? For example, if I bought the more expensive domain philippreston.photography, would there be any potential benefits compared to buying a more basic name such as philippreston.uk or philipreston.com? My unresearched thoughts are that an extension such as .photography might look and sound better if you want to promote your photography, but apart from that, does its really make any difference what extension is used for a purchased domain name?

1. Upload printable images.

2. Do good keywording

3. Write good descriptions.

4. Figure out what marketing strategies work for you.

5. See No.4

Disclaimer: I have not been successful so I have yet to figure out No. 4

Bill,

On the first, "pictures" you come up second! And then on the other, about 9th, still very good! So, converting this to a "secured site, https, is more betterer.....?I f so, should I just start there and create/buy a website template and skip the Wordpress exercise?

I do have a blog already, can't mention it here(POLITICAL), and also an older blog on Blogger(even more political!!!) YIKES! It seems there are plenty of places to just buy a template and start with a new website. I have a ton of domain names, so that's ready to go.

1. What would you suggest?
A. Should I hire a nerd and have them just do their thing and get all the SEO stuff done right, from the start and then link back to Pixels?
III. Are you using anything else, like Google+?

Philip,

Welcome! There are a ton of people that know far more than me on this stuff, but while I got you on the phone, here goes. I've got a bunch of domain names and ALL are .com and the thinking is, that someday, the finite number of .com's will be exhausted and then maybe somebody would want one of mine!!! $$$$$!!! I think there will now always be a new crop of ".somethings", but the .com ones are limited. And in reality, at our level, probably doesn't mean that much to sales. On the other hand, if you happen to be this guy, Peter Lik, then the .com is VERY important since he's an industry in himself! lik.com

David,

Good start, but now, I think we should have TWO of these. One for newbies, which is directed more to your list and then ONE for those professionals that have joined, are perhaps selling stuff already and are looking for another outlet for their marketing of images? What do you think?

In my case, with over 4000 images, your list doesn't pertain, because supposedly(LOL), I've already done that stuff. So I'm glad you posted this since it has changed my thought process, (little there is of that these days) and see that 2 sets of Commandments might be needed!

Rich

Rich

I would be very happy to own Lik.com, and the business that goes with it!

Your general point about limited availability of domain names is a good one, and even if I wanted to buy a certain name (and extension), it may not be available anyway, so that alone limits what domain name I could purchase. Still interested to hear from anyone though who feels able to comment on my earlier question about whether some domain name extensions may (or may not) be better than others.

Philip,

One way to determine what's worth more than something else, as far s extension, just look at GoDaddy.com, where I buy my domain names and see what cost more. .com will be more than .net and .net will be more than .store.....etc.

https://www.godaddy.com/dpp/find?checkAvail=1&tmskey=&domainToCheck=richfranco.com

Rich

Re: domains. I would stay away from the "new" extensions like ".shop" or ".blog" or anything that is not one of the more "traditional" domains. I always suggest dot-com, with dot-net or dot-org - and NOTHING ELSE.

Think about with your own browsing - how often do you see any extension other than com, net or org. In some countries other than the USA their local extension may be preferred. Just think about where your target market is.

Other than dot-com, I have a business site that had done quite well for the last several years in dot-org (BusinessChecks) and my FortMcHenry.net (as mentioned above) - because of availability in the domain name I wanted. I lucked into the Fort McHenry domain at normal registration price.

On the "secure" site: It is thought that Google will give a bit more priority to listing an https site than a non-secured, http site. That remains to be seen, especially for websites that do not directly sell and collect customer info. But I figure it can't hurt.

Bill,

I agree with the.com stuff and have only .com domains on a shelf, like other peoples art.com or Great American Gallery.com...or Left of Bernie.com, stuff like that.

So, is the Wordpress vehicle as good as if I just use one of my domain names and set that up?

1. Put your website on everything.
Business cards, post cards, note cards, put it in your signature for every email you write. Send Newsletters, Get a Google business listing, put it on google maps, create a Bing business listing, Yahoo business listing, local Chamber of Commerce listing, local business listings, online yellow page listing...... and so on. I can't even remember every online listing I'm on.

2. Get out and talk to people.
Go to events, gallery openings, local community events, volunteer to help with the events or local non-profits. Do painting or photo demos, hand out your business cards and promo cards to everyone you meet. Make yourself known in your community.

3. Make sure your work is at the highest quality it can be.
Write good titles and descriptions for every piece of art you do.

4. Respond to all your inquiries in a timely bases.

5. Treat your art business like a "Real" business.

Rich - I am using my own domain on my own server space. The two hosts that I use each have easy Wordpress installs onto that server space. Wordpress is basically software that helps organize data, in a easy to organize manner. Some folks use the Wordpress.COM service that is (mostly) free but somewhat limited. Wordpress.ORG is where the software is obtained (free) that can be installed on your own server. At least that's the way it was for several years - the more modern approach is that hosts supply an easy way to install it.

Rich, the more googleable term for what Bill is doing is "host your own wordpress"

It is a very good way to do a website, even if you don't want the blogging option for a lot of different reasons.

One big reason that may be attractive is if you have someone set it up for you in the event that you are not that technical, it is very easy for you to administer after it is all set up. You can still contract whoever set it up for big technical behind the scenes changes, but simple updates can easily be done by you.

I'm not really sure if "googleable" is a word. Hahaha

1. Learn your craft - be woke to your industry, market, and understand where you fit in.
2. Figure out what you want to say
3. Show the public what makes you different than the millions of others
4. Let potential buyers see the process, behind the scenes work.
5. Create for a market not just yourself. Understand the market you trying to sell to - who are the buyers? what are they looking for?

I don't like to give advice because, if there is one thing I've learned from here, every artist does things a bit different based on what works for them.

But, here is a guy who does give advice to artists, and has been for like 30 years, who knows and has helped many artists to do just what you're asking.

I've read all of his articles, books, and follow much of what he says with great success .. for what works for me. Enjoy!

https://fineartamerica.com/blogs/1-top-ten-art-marketing-tools-to-transform-your-career.html

https://fineartamerica.com/blogs/10-steps-how-to-make-a-successful-art-business.html

https://fineartamerica.com/blogs/what-is-the-best-method-for-how-to-sell-your-art.html

Andrew,

Good news and bad news! Yes, Googleable is a word!
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=googleable

Bad news, you get no credit for that word! LOL!

I do have a couple of Wordpress blogs already and of course, they are VERY political, so can't possibly post them here! I did contact GoDaddy and they would be happy to set up a site for me, for about $1500!!!!! So, yes, I'll be doing this myself.

Edward,

Is there an "English" version for newbies of your list? LOL!

Frank,

A new name to me and probably overwhelming to most here, especially newbies. For this purpose, need bullet points and then we can expand those to fill out the need.

As I mentioned above, I now think we need two versions of these "helpful hints", one for newbies and then one for folk like me......

Rich

Here is my "checklist for success." Quite frankly if you haven't done the first 6, then don't come in the forums saying you have been here 6 months, 1 year or 5 years. If you haven't done the first 6 and didn't make sales you were never really here. I suggest you start all over. I am serious. Don't assign your work to the Google dustbin. Ignore number 8 as sponsoring searches is no longer a thing. I know I am not making sales like I used to, but at least I know why and what to do. I got my first 3 sales within weeks. One thing you don't want to do is blow the "new" advantage. Take your time and do everything right for every image, even if it seems it will take forever to get it all done. If you can't write a few sentences in the description don't hit the submit button.

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=2567813

"Here is my "checklist for success." Quite frankly if you haven't done the first 6 ,then don't come in the forums saying you have been here 6 months, 1 year or 5 years. If you haven;t done the first 6 and didn't make sales you were never really here. "

Looking over your list I guess I can whine with a clear concience. lol

i think the main thing is - know your stuff first.

people don't come here totally new. if you got your first camera - your not ready to sell yet. spend a number of years perfecting it first. you can't be surprised of your work not selling when you have newbie pictures. if the images look poor compared to others, following any list of goals won't help.

if you learned how to make a cake - you don't open a bakery. and following all the things you need to do to make and sell cakes won't apply because you won't have the basic level of understanding of how to run that business, make things fast and neat, and it may not be as good as the other bake shops. it also may look very plain. i like using this example because people have been to bakery's, there is a lot of stuff in one. many cakes, cookies etc, always being made - that's what your store should look like here, a large variety of high quality things. and not just things that you talked yourself into as being good to look at.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Bradford,

I guess my work here is done.......LOL! Seems to cover just about everything I can think of and MORE! And additionally, spans BOTH the newbie stuff needed and then the ones that have been here for ages...maybe even the Dark Ages....long time!

David,

I agree!

Mike,

I sorta agree. Newbies reading the stuff at the "Home Page" and "just upload images and start selling", think that is true, which in the majority of cases, 99.99%, doesn't happen. Although I do remember years ago, a photographer, newspaper guy, uploaded ONE IMAGE of a storm, over some Southern city and from the get go, sold and sold and sold. That is the only example that I'm aware of, of that happening immediately!

People reading the opening stuff, THINK they are opening a bakery and can't wait to sell a few cupcakes and jelly donuts.....That's why, almost daily, we see posts like I mention at the top, "I've been here now for 3 months and haven't sold a thing!!!


Rich

i learned to ride a bike - i entered a biking championship
i just got my drivers license, indy 500 hear i come
youtube taught me how to put in my own stitches - who wants an operation?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Bradford,

Great list! I don't think I saw that one when you initially posted it, but I'm glad to have seen it now. Thanks for sharing all that.

Rich,

Chances are you can get someone local to you to help you with setting up wordpress sites for much cheaper than that if you feel you need the help. It also should be easy enough to get done yourself. Wordpress is a popular platform with tons of info online about doing just about anything you'd need to do. Wordpress.org, youtube, and a lot of patience are about all you'll need.

Edward,

That's a great list, too. I could stand to tighten up pretty much all of those points myself. Thanks, it should be helpful to others too.

How you doing this morning DK?

It makes two of us that have that clear conscience.



Good to see your thread Rich,

I am always looking to take it to the next level.

I have been adding discount codes to my ads. Now I wonder if the response rate will rise a little or a lot.

Dave

Mike

And again, what is your point?

Andrew,

Yes, since I've already had a blog on Wordpress, will try this on my own to start.

David,

Yes, the EXACT reason for this thread, for ALL of US TO LEARN!

Rich

Hi Rich,

Years ago I made a fast good friend who owned donut shops. The guy was a true artisan when it came to donuts. One morning he had me in the office and he showed me a bag full of coupons. He pulled out several different coupons, different colors, different shapes, different deals. The coupons had different codes on each one to group them by the print source so he could know where they came from.

I have four Promo Codes at work now. My friend's lesson at work.

Behind the scenes in FAA's Discounting tab each Promo Code has a counter for sales.

Dave
Bridburg.com

I actually think the number of images you have is not only top five but probably closer to number one on my list assuming you have the quality down.

Well, sort of.

It is not so much the number of images as it is the number of different markets you can cover. After X number of images of the same thing/place you get diminishing returns for your effort. But if you can cover more markets and cover them well then you increase your odds of having just what someone is looking for. If you can do that and cover many under-served markets you can make pretty good money. Find something or someplace that not every single tourist photographer that goes to Katmandu is shooting.

If you must shoot the same thing as everyone else try and do something different than everyone else or much better. The former is often easier to do but the latter also works IF you can get it seen. Wow the buyer and make them want YOUR image more than the competition's.

JC,

Glad to see you're no longer BLUE! A good sign! I think, again, that your statement applies to both newbies and oldies, but for different reasons. Someone just starting out, generally speaking, will not have a huge library like you or I, more like a few handfuls, under one hundred or so. So that artist, might want to follow your other point and begin with a niche market, maybe their own town, local State or National Parks and try, based on a search here, which market has the smallest number of images for a certain area or region/attraction and try and fill that space up with their own images.

On the other hand, someone with thousands of images, might not be able to switch to a niche market pursuit and instead, overwhelm what he/she does have the inventory already up on FAA. Example, cars, for me, broadly expand the number of cars, models/years, color, etc. and become shown on the first page of any search.

On my bucket list, is Iceland and may still go, but doing a search, just for photographs, shows over 21 thousand and at least for the first bunch of pages, amazing stuff. So that would be a really hard market to "overwhelm" or even possibly just show up on the first 5-10 pages of a search.

So, your point then is RESEARCH and determine what and where you're gonna shoot stuff and WHY! Thinking about posting flowers or sunsets and hoping your images will get found and then sold, isn't reasonable since those 2 categories are probably the 2 that has the largest quantities of images of any in the World!

And another point that I just thought of, is don't do what I did and create a large inventory of images, landscapes, florals, etc. and then start a huge collection of cars and not be able to then separate them into 2 new sites here.

Rich

Iceland has been discovered by photographers (Vikings beat them to it but that was a long time ago). Not sure if buyers have discovered it yet. Still make the trip, it's a cool place. Very cool unless you go in summer and then its only lukewarm.

....

Whatever you do, don't sell your art like donuts. Sell yourself as a quality product, not a snack food full of empty calories.

Ed,

We do not know what ads work and what do not. Not entirely. Using promo codes changes that somewhat.

Besides the public know the difference between buying a $1.10 donut and buying a $1200 canvas. No mention of carbs for one thing.

Dave
Bridburg.com

Another list to consider:

1. Visit museums
2. Visit galleries
3. Visit home decor stores
4. Look at magazines
5. Create some great chit that looks like it could belong in any of the above.

Ed,

Looked for your stuff on the first few pages of a search, nada!!! Surprised! You have some great images.....I agree that chasing the quantity thing versus the quality thing is utmost for serious artists.....

David,

Probably do know what ads work, if there is a long enough track record. What is more important is to create and have the best possible images and then sales will follow.....

Rich

Ed,

Yes, we are here ALL to sell and not to just show. Knowing the "market" one is best to serve, is the most important aspect of this business and chasing the wrong market, a waste of time,

Rich

Pricing appropriately for the market you've place your work beats a promo code every time.

Hi Rich,

If I ran just one ad on one SM, I'd know if the ad was working somewhat. I have other ads going.

If one of them clicks and the code gets used, I would follow through with more money there.

Dave
Bridburg.com

Good evening Edward,

Running ads to mainly women, nothing gets women into Macy's, Bed Bath and Beyond etc like a Special Promotion. Frankly it is a prerequisite.

Just what I see in life. In fact whenever I say to my mom I need something for my condo, my mother offers me a coupon. Dad does not even notice we are talking. I have never seen dad with a coupon in his hands.

Now if you have a lower margin, offering a percentage off might be more troublesome. That is not my perspective on this.

Dave
Bridburg.com

Spot on Rich.

I will literally choose my route when I am on a trip to hit locations that are underserved. I define underserved as less than pages or results or about a hundred images. THAT is applicable to new artists as well as those more seasoned. While it may take the perfect light and a once a year sunset to produce something that will sell for say Pensacola Beach FL it does not take that level of wow to sell something with little to no competition. And yes, there are still a LOT of these places or subjects that have a viable market that is barely touched.

Iceland, WAS way up on my to-do list but cannot justify it for the sake of photography alone as it does have 22 thousand plus images and there are a LOT of good ones. Now, it may still be a good vacation but I would personally rather drive from Fairbanks AK to the Arctic Sea in Deadhorse AK. 500 miles of beautiful and rarely touched or shot scenery. Now, there may not be a market for it but there is a better chance of getting a good seller or two there than Iceland IMO.

Re Iceland, yes it's a great place for landscape photography. I have only been once about 7 or 8 years ago, and would love to go again, but in that time the price of my previous trip has doubled, and it was quite expensive the first time! You would have to sell a lot of prints with good profit margins to justify going there for selling prints on FAA or other POD sites. Having said that, it is a very photogenic place, so if it's on your bucket list, do it!

Help Google Help You

Make sure your major relevant keywords are worked naturally into your titles, descriptions and keyword lists. If you have your own site, also make sure the major keywords are sprinkled in the alt text, paragraph headers/titles, captions, file names, page links, page text and page descriptions as well. Importance of these things can and do change like the tides with Google, but it never hurts to associate relevant keywords wherever Google may now (or in the future) give them credence. Do it once, and never have to do it again for the life of the page.

Until google has the tech to determine what an image is from just the pixels, it depends on the words that are associated with the image to know what the image is. If you don't let Google know what an image is, you lose any chance of benefiting from Google.

Since most of my time and effort is still on creating and selling art for Face to Face shows, I shouldn't be commenting on this thread

Anyway, I am...

If and when direct artwork selling becomes impossible for me, and can only hope that POD selling will become be a viable source of income for me.

I will then,

1......Change "hope" to "expect"

2.....Commit myself entirely to that goal

3.....Learn what works and what doesn't

4.....Network...If it becomes too distastefulcr for me...hire someone to do the dirty work

5....Stick at it..,Creating, Creating, Creating


As of now, when I get a notification that "I've made a sale" I treat it as a "Gift that Keeps on Giving"

That thought process that will have to change...If and when I jump aboard, body and soul, onto this POD gravy train

David,

I never have uses a special promotion and might look into it, but as Edward said, a good price, over the long term, on quality images, works better.....

JC,

Unfortunately, you're right and although Iceland will remain on my bucket list, will move down a few buckets, both for cost and the ability to create anything new, that might sell over the existing images here. Truly, MOST of the places we would want to go are covered here, but within those huge collections, might be some interesting subsets that would work.....

Philip,

Yes, will keep it on the list and the airfare is probably covered, by a family member that flies on Delta, so we'll see....

Shawn,

Good advice and hope to be able to do most of that. Might start with Wordpress, which seems very user-friendly.....

Roger,

NOW maybe that DAY!!!

Rich

Thanks Rich. I did set up a web site, richard-redman.pixels.com. Hopefully that will help

Rick,

Hello! That website is what we used to call the "artist's" website when you join FAA as a Premium member, which is where you should direct all marketing towards.

What I was referring to, was ANOTHER website, a standalone one that you can have images and then direct buyers, back to your Pixels website, where you have the pricing and products. It's the additional off of FAA that Google sees and then gives more importance to than just the Pixels site.

I'll probably start with a Wordpress website or blog. Go back to the top of this post and read Bill Swartwout's post about the Wordpress websites he's using......

And of course, more "inventory" helps too.....

Rich