Besides All That Mrs. Lincoln, How

Harold, That just pisses me off! It is hard for me to believe that your pain meds would be denied causing you more pain and discomfort than you already are going through. I am holding back due to the knowledge that the thread can only go so far. All I can say is the patient and their comfort should come first. Very sorry to have heard this, hope that never happens again!

It is a sad day when the abuse of pain meds impact those who legitimateLY need them.
Hal, have you contacted your Doctor??

I would tell you how the VA health care system deals with the 'new laws' on opioids - but again - it's a very very political thing. The doctor may understand your problem - but the pharmacy just does as it's told. If you do a google search - you get drugs, epidemic, crisis, addiction, and treatment for addiction. Making patients that are suffering suffer more - is NOT going to solve anything.

Marlene - there is NOTHING a doctor can do - their hands are tied as well as the pharmacist's. You might could get a second doctor to write another Rx - but the way ALL pharmacies are tied together with your name, etc. - they wouldn't be able to deliver - they lose their license, that particular pharmacist might even be fined or go to jail - and if the doctor could be shown to know you already have a Rx - he could lose his/her license.

Hal, while I can't possibly imagine what you're going thru and therefore can't address that, I can't help but wonder why you blame the government for the new regulations.

This may not be the best solution to a complicated problem but let's not put the blame on the government that is damned if they do and damned if they don;t.

• Drug overdose is the leading cause of accidental death in the US, with 52,404 lethal drug.
overdoses in 2015. Opioid addiction is driving this epidemic, with 20,101 overdose deaths.
related to prescription pain relievers, and 12,990 overdose deaths related to heroin in.
Opioid Addiction 2016 Facts & Figures - American Society of Addiction ...
https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/.../opioid-addiction-disease-facts-figures.pdf

Ok...watching

What a screwed up system! I feel for you Hal, you really shouldn't be put through this. Always wishing you the best!

Harold,

Hope you are now feeling more comfortable.

Dave

It pisses me off completely! There should be as many pain killers as you need, just sickens me to read what you wrote, Harold.

We had to put our dad on pot pills, or at least my sisters did as he was in too much pain and they didn't want him on any pain meds.

It was worse when he was getting off all booze, we had to take matters into our own hands and it's unmentionable. The doctors wouldn't treat him at all. We took care of him, and luckily he's healthy now.

Lisa, mind your language please. Ive eased off a little for Hal, but I'm not ignoring breaking the rules completely. *Glares intimidatingly*

Abbie, sorry I started that not Lisa. It is just hard to believe that the system, whatever and whomever's fault it is, could be that unfeeling.

Agree totally but let's be angry with forum friendly words

IMO, some of us seem to be forgetting or confusing the fact that "The System" is set up by human beings and all that goes along with that.

It is angering that legitimate patients with legitimate issues have to be turned away because of the abuse of the system. Practicing physicians (legal drug dealers) who abuse the system ought to have a greater penalty.

Hope the 66 last you a bit Harold.

So sorry to hear that, Hal. It makes me wonder why exceptions can't be made? Whenever legislation is passed, it seems to always be done with a broad brush. Isn't it possible to provide exceptions for the termimally ill or those in dire need? I truly don't get it. So unfair.

Totally agree with you Glenn. It's those unscrupulous doctors that should be penalized.

(sitting on my hands)

IMO, some of us seem to be forgetting or confusing the fact that "The System" is set up by human beings and all that goes along with that.- Bill Tomsa

Nothing confusing about this at all, the system sucks and so do the human beings that set it up that way, they both suck equally!

Mario - "Nothing confusing about this at all, the system sucks and so do the human beings that set it up that way, they both suck equally! "

So what is your solution, Mario?

Something called common sense, I know it baffles some. In this case it's, you don't keep medications from being available to people who have a real medical need for them, nothing else needs to factor into this.

Mario - "...nothing else needs to factor into this."

Really, Mario? I guess you think that over 20,000 people dying from opioid overdoses in a year in America is "nothing else" ?

What is to be done about the fact that deaths from opioids are almost TWICE the deaths from HEROIN?

• Drug overdose is the leading cause of accidental death in the US, with 52,404 lethal drug.
overdoses in 2015. Opioid addiction is driving this epidemic, with 20,101 overdose deaths.
related to prescription pain relievers, and 12,990 overdose deaths related to heroin in.
Opioid Addiction 2016 Facts & Figures - American Society of Addiction ...
https://www.asam.org/docs/default-source/.../opioid-addiction-disease-facts-figures.pdf

Mario is right. It's equal suckism, lol.

I agree that common sense needs to prevail. Why penalize the people who need it most in order to restrict it from those who are addicts? I don't see any reason for that.

Patricia S. I refer you to my last post. Please tell us what you think about the lives of over 20,000 people dying from opioid overdoses.

Common sense tells me that this is part of the problem that some people think is just such a simple solution.

Bill, we are talking two different things here. Allowing those who need it to get it and those who don't need not to have access. Those that break the rules should be prosecuted.

We are not talking about two different things here, Mario.

One drives the other. If it weren't for all of the abuse of these drugs we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The reason restrictions have been implemented is because more than 20,000 people OD'ed in 2015.

IMO this restriction is a temporary move until a better solution is found.

BTW the ones who break the rules can't be prosecuted...they're dead!

Bill, that's the problem. It isn't a simple solution! The simple solution they've come up with is to restrict it for EVERYbody, when it should only be restricted for the abusers and the doctors who abuse their privilege! The law makers are not considering the people who are in dire need of this drug! That is why I ask -- why not provide exceptions? How hard can that be?

Please tell us what you think about the lives of over 20,000 people dying from opioid overdoses. -Bill Tomsa

I think it's tragic,they also should not be taking the medication unless it's for medical reasons, taking it to get high and overdosing is the risk that the person taking it is assuming.

Patricia I refer you to my earlier post in which I said "This may not be the best solution to a complicated problem..."

So we agree that it is a complicated problem that can't be solved by a simple solution.

As for "why not provide exceptions? How hard can that be?" I don't know how to answer that as I am not a lawyer, doctor or lawmaker.

BTW all of the conversations we've been having here about just ONE healthcare issue and "common sense" simple solutions to it reminds me of this guy who in the past year said something like "Healtcare we can fix it. How hard can it be?"

Take the profit out of medicine, in other words, medicine should stop being big business for anyone, you'll see how things fall in place.The priority should be health care not making money, for insurance companies,drug companies, or doctors that want to get rich.

Mario - "Take the profit out of medicine, in other words, medicine should stop being big business for anyone, "

Mario, no offense but that's the same thing I've heard some people say about ART. :-)

But I do agree with you that there should be reforms especially to the subject of pharmaceutical companies.

A year or so ago I heard that there are only two, yes two, countries IN THE WORLD that allow pharmaceutical advertising on TV.

They were New Zealand and the United States of America!

And at that time NZ was already considering banning them.

Of course with the billions of advertising dollars that the TV networks pull in each year from these companies I doubt that it will soon be "Breaking News".

Death - from the illegal use of drugs - and I don't care how many die - doesn't bother me in the least. If you think that cutting off the legal, legitimate use of the painkillers will solve that problem - it won't - it will only make those that suffer from often excruciating pain suffer more. IF a seller of illegal drugs - a dealer we'll call them - get's caught - that would be another death from the use and selling drugs illegally. Why are cigarettes still on the market - oh - we like the tax money - even if thousands of folks every year get lung cancer, heart disease, and die - from the use of that "legal" drug which is sold on every corner market.

"Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers."
CDC - Fact Sheet - Fast Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use

and you tell me you are worried about 20,000 deaths - give me a break.

Mario - the ONLY reason there are new drugs - profit - money - filthy lucre. Take the profit out of it - we be back to using Shamans/witch doctors and fake nostrums (where the money will be).

Very many TV shows would fold - if it were not for the money brought to them by advertising drugs - and when you hear the good - which lasts about 15 seconds - and the things that could happen if you take those drugs - 45 seconds. And yet, people still ask their doctor for them or in some cases the doctor, receiving a benefit from the drug company - prescribes them.

Very many TV shows folding, depending on which ones might not be a bad thing RD.

I think there are many people that would still love to be doctors and help people even if they only made say, $50,000 yr., the same for researchers. Taking the profit out of it doesn't mean it has to be free, but an aspirin in a hospital just because it's given to you should not cost $372 on average per aspirin. :-)

We probably don't need most of the medicine the drug companies push anyway. They should only be allowed to make new medicines that actually cure illnesses not treat sympthoms.

Mario - "I think there are many people that would still love to be doctors and help people even if they only made say, $50,000 yr"

I don't dispute that, but now you have to address the cost of becoming a doctor. Very few people are going to be able to pay off the huge costs of college on $50,000 a year.

See how complicated this whole thing becomes?

Hello my friends,
First, let me thank you for keeping this conversation above the water line - meaning no conversations concerning donkeys or elephants.

This problem we have concerning Opioids is definitely only going to get worse. There are many contributing causes of this problem - Overuse, illegal sellers (pushers), Doctors and people who're dealing with this problem without any education or credentials. The resulting problem is that terminally ill patients who need these drugs are going to have to suffer. I am one of the lucky ones because of my past history of addiction which keeps me from going over the edge, instead I try to keep my intake lower that what is prescribed on the label. But there were times that the doctors didn't know about such as my cancer infecting my bones. Even after all the Radium treatments I had the pain is worsening and during this time I had to take more than the required usage that was listed on the label. That was the cause of my ordering a refill 4 days in advance.

Unfortunately I am not the only one who is suffering from this illness who are going to need these drugs to enable us to get through this cancer with a certain amount of dignity. It was mentioned above that exceptions should be made for the terminally ill but I say all they have to look at are my charts and paper trail that is created every day I step into the clinic, the hospital or my doctors' offices to understand that I am not an abuser of this drug but a patient depending on this drug for the treatment of my rising pain levels. To deny myself and other legitimate users of these opioids is a cruel and unjust punishment.

Lol!, we can send them to Cuba to become doctors.

and then they'd have to retrain when they came back to the US (fact)...

The problem of bringing down costs and availability can be simply taken out of the money equation if the cost were driven down by opening up competition in the market. A $4.00 prescription in India can be $600.00 here in the states because of "over regulation". Is it me.... or are most doctors from the area of India or Pakistan anymore? They should know what they are prescribing and if it is good for the treatment.

But the biggest pushers of this stuff on people are doctors! They prescribe liberally and seem to get away without any penalties... unless Michael Jackson passes away.

Glen McCarthy Art and Photography _ "unless Michael Jackson passes away. "

Or Prince.

Glenn, it's not $600 due to "over regulation", it's $600 because that's what the US market will pay, simple economics. Drug companies make as much money as they can because that is why they exist. They have myriad shareholders (including 401-K funds) to please who want the highest return on their investments...

It is scandalous that Harold cannot get his pain medication, for a truly legitimate need. Opioids are fantastic drugs for pain control, but unfortunately they are also a drug of abuse and have been over prescribed historically, in part because patients demand them. Harold is caught in the vortex at this particular time because the world has finally woken up to this fact, albeit belatedly. And for those that have no sympathy for the addicted try reading around the subject or listening to the tragic stories on NPR... not everyone is an emaciated junkie...

Having said this you would have thought there would be a logical way for a person who is seriously ill to get his or her pain meds.

~Richard
reevephotos.com

Richard Reeve - "And for those that have no sympathy for the addicted try reading around the subject or listening to the tragic stories on NPR... not everyone is an emaciated junkie... "

Amen to that!

My deceased husband was a drug addict. Prescription drugs. It's very easy to get addicted when the doctors are enablers.

Bingo on that Isabella! And anyone who is involved with a loved one who is addicted and dependent on drugs understands just how much pain it causes. That drug becomes their main focus and goal in life. Everyone, and everything else becomes secondary. There is nothing worse than watching a father and mother neglect their children's nourishment and well-being so that they can spend the money on their chosen treasure of drugs.

Richard,

You are partially right. But in these other countries they do not have to hire a plethora of lawyers, they do not have to go through years of pending approvals, and they do not have to have forced insurances, taxes, etc, etc, etc. As for the market in the United States and the costs... if there is no competition there is only a monopoly.

Hal I am so sorry you have to deal with this issue as well. There sure is nothing fair or logical about it.

I have NO sympathy for those that are addicted to the illegal use of drugs - I do have great sympathy and my heart goes out to those that are hurt by those that are addicted. It IS a tragedy - But this is NOT the way to solve the problem nor will it solve the problem - just like the "war on drugs" has not solved the problem.

And I go back to cigarettes/tobacco use. Since the 1950's it has been known that tobacco use causes cancer - they even mandated that packages of tobacco products be labeled. but money - both for the manufacturers that have been sued almost blind - but more important is the tax money gathered by both federal and state governments - that's what continues to fuel the "cigarette/tobacco epidemic". It's not really funny - but you would think that health care workers would be the most adamant about not using tobacco - but about 5 blocks from this house is a pediatric clinic - and as far as I can see - about 5 or 6 of the health care workers there - leave their building and stand out by the road, right across the road is a school with young children, and they smoke.

I only wish the best for you, Hal.

I have encountered restrictions on dates I can refill, too. It is frustrating for me, but I am so sorry you encounter pain as a result. I am a little worried about getting enough of my meds before my 37 day cruise to South America, Galapagos, Machu Picchu, and Antarctica next year. The limit on one of my prescriptions is 30 days.

Sudafed (decongestant) can only be bought from a Pharmacist now and they record everything about you before giving it out - that is because it is apparently an ingredient in meth.

I hope your doctor can help resolve this matter for you. There have to be exceptions with a doctor's word, one would think...

I am so sorry you're in pain, Hal.