Jeff Koons Downsizes

Good read David, gotta love that he is alledged to pay his assitants $21.00 per hour, seems he is moving on to other than paintings, is exploring Virtual Reality art now, oh and high end handbags.

Probably moving to off shore painting factories.

Ed,

My theorizing is the Gazing Ball Series fell very short because it is not his work. If he had hand painted the work it would have been worth more.

Koons is barely above owning a factory and putting out a mass marketed product.

He mixed his statues, the ball, with his factory painting. The concept was made from the best of materials, but was not thought out and integrated well. Another reason the project fell short. He does not make the best of derivative work.

His ballerina is also under attack. He used a small statue or knick knack from the Ukraine I think.

My opinion only, Koons is not clear enough in what he wants to do. It is a paradox because his finished products are so clean.

Dave

I heard he's decided he can no longer ignore the tremendous potential of shower curtains and duvet covers.

LMAO

Shame on you...lol

Dave

I'm sure there are wealthy people out there that would jump at the chance to have Koons do their interior decorating, duvet covers and shower curtains too, just to be able to say that their home was designed by Koons.

I agree, David K. Decorating would become an instantly profitable side-hustle for Mr. Koons! Then, retail home decor stores, worldwide! Oh, dear . . .

I think that what ever it was that he was doing that got him to where he is today, is what he should stick to, to much re-inventing himself might devalue his original originality.

Mario,

His statues coming in fives, each a different color. He has a backlog of work there. And even after the backlog more can be ordered from those five versions of much of his statue work. Kitsch stuff.

He has to constantly try the market.

The thing is the market for Contemporary work has been falling away since 2015 its peak.

That is truly what he is feeling the most.

Dave

Nobody deserves his success LESS than plagarist Jeff Koons. I'd happily take a Kincaid painting over a Koons any day.

Did he ever paint or make his own work?

David B, I would imagine you would like his new line of handbags that use iconic public domain artwork:

http://nypost.com/2017/04/12/jeff-koons-brings-fine-art-to-the-masses-with-4k-handbags/

@ JL Meadows
"happily take a Kincaid painting over a Koons any day."

Spot on!

As for Koons, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt (can kitsch be art? Would he become the new Joseph Beuys) until I saw his porn series (aka Made in Heaven, high quality life sized prints). That was his all time low. His current work, appealing to the lowest common denominator, unartistic, on the same level as car seat covers, cheap wrapping paper.....

I am not a prude, doing a lot of work with nude models.

Yep, I am not a huge Kincaid fan in terms of content, but he could paint and didnt have to plagiarise.

Ed,

That "lunch box" with "Van Gogh" printed across it for $4000 is funny. You would think if you could afford a $4000 hand bag that you would know who the master artist was.

Do I need to go back and print on each of my images the name of the underlying artist? Funny beyond stupid.

I guess Koons factory is 'repainting' these images in slightly different colors, but he does not really understand how to integrate old master works with new working concepts. His gazing ball series is feckless.

Dave

David B. - It all in knowing your target market and partnering with a vendor who owns that space.

Funny how the article says "Koons brings fine art to the masses" - I think the actual masses have had access to iconic art in the gift shop for a long time. $4k handbags aren't exactly aimed at the masses.

Maybe Koons will team up with Ivanka for a line of shoes next.

Ed,

Koons bought three studios in mid town to later combine into one large working factory, cost $23.5 million. He has not moved in yet, he is still in Chelsea.

Who says he knows what he is doing?

As some close friends of the family say about one investor in our midst, he was up and he was down, he was up and he was down three times now, but all that matters is now he is up. I do not trust Koons will be up at the end of the day. Meanwhile his sculptures were getting $1.8 million.

Dave

"he does not really understand how to integrate old master works with new working concepts"

Except he does it better than anyone :-)

The handbags are a beautiful combination of Fine Art, Graphic Design, Haute Couture and marketing to a specific, well-healed audience. The items look expensive and look top-of-the-line. Creating and nurturing that market is an art unto itself.

If you still find that "funny beyond stupid" then you will forever be throwing rocks at artists who understand how to turn images that anyone can access into gold.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Uuuggghh...

I should have Jeff Koons' "problems"! LOL

Bill Tomsa

https://billtomsa.blogspot.com/

This really proves that there is no correlation between really great art and really expensive art, now great marking is a totally different story.

Except he does it better than anyone :-)

Dan,

We totally disagree here. Putting the Cypress on a lunch box handbag and then printing in large type Van Gogh on it.....it is totally lame.

Also you do not know if it is gold or not. He has been failing more recently. The peak in the contemporary market was back in 2015. He spent like a drunken sailor on his next factory space. His prices have been slipping. Even his leading product, the sculptures, have not come close to selling out.

You are assuming way to much to label him a success at all.

Even Rembrandt was penniless for about the last two decades of his career after going bankrupt. But Koons is hardly Rembrandt in what he will leave the world.

I am serious about his derivative works....just calling a spade a spade, he does not think through integrating his concepts.

Not many women will want a $4000 lunch box with van Gogh printed in black letters across it. The printing is actually shabby.

Dave

Bill,

There are people who keep their head down and wind up comfortable in retirement. When things are about just enjoying the day.

Then there are people who make money in the millions, but spend in the tens of millions. Life is not kind to them.

Reminds me of my female barber in the summer of 2005. She was earning about $20 per hour and married to a car mechanic earning $12. A real estate agent going with the times talked them into a $560,000 house. No deposit and no income check.

One day I was sitting in her chair between the two male barbers and the two men were laying into her. They had come to hate her because she was lording her $560k home over them.

I felt really bad for her. I could see what was coming.

What goes up most definitely does come down. The reason a lot of money is spent on landing gear for airplanes.

Dave

"Not many women will want a $4000 lunch box with van Gogh printed in black letters across it." - David Bridburg

David, at 4K a pop you really don't need a very many women to buy it. :-)

Bill Tomsa

https://billtomsa.blogspot.com/

"printing in large type Van Gogh on it.....it is totally lame."

It's brilliant and it works.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

".This really proves that there is no correlation between really great art and really expensive art, now great marking is a totally different story.." Mario

An outlier proves no correlation.
See introduction to elementary probability and statistics 101

The threshold for brilliant has just reached a new low. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would pay for the majority of the work I just saw on his website.

"It's brilliant and it works"

In a flea market sort of way. The only thing selling these things for $4k is Koons' name.

So let me get this right, his claim to fame is his conceptual art, the statement that he makes about contemporary art, the statement is so profound,so mind tantalizing, unique and original that is what has made his work worth millions and millions of dollars?

In all honesty if his wall street buddies and other wealthy art collectors didn't ear mark him and scheme for his success, he would propably be like a pink sheet stock that never got pumped and dumped.

Mario,

Yes and no.

He was done for some years ago. He then hatched a plan that needed tens of millions to bankroll of making five different colored versions of kitsch objects on a massive scale.

We know human beings on a primitive level give value to size. The pyramids etc.

So he threw together his ideas back over ten years ago well. He got into production and his sculptures got up to $1.8 million going out the door. Remember his gallery investors take a big chunk of that including the financing of it. The factory costs are high as well. He sculptures are highly polished steel. One finger print and they are ruined like a proof coin being touched.

If it all ended there things would be okay, but no.......

Dave

"Saying nothing would be the appropriate thing to do for an artist here.... "

I'm speechless.

Cheryl,

Why are you speechless?

Dave

"some others might hypocritically not agree."

David, I'm quite enjoying your hypocrisy. You think it's okay to open a thread to slam a successful artist and label his work "funny beyond stupid," but fly into a rage when someone labels your work "funny beyond stupid."

What gives? If someone opened a separate thread to slam your work, say how poorly you're doing artistically, how you've failed your partners and speculate on your dwindling finances you would spontaneously combust.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

Dan,

Please stop trying to wind people up in every thread.

We are having a good time. The consensus here in this thread is Koons work is way over rated. Not even good.

My work is not open to discussion. It was never part of this discussion.

Dave

Because, as most eloquently exposited, and explained, and proclaimed in your most inimitable statement prior, O Best Beloved*, saying nothing would be the appropriate thing for an artist to do here, at this very time, in this eminently profound and circumscribed instant and situation. LOL

*R. Kipling, The Just So Stories

One of Koons' buggest fans, Steve Wynn, is legally blind, and once accidentally poked a hole in a Picasso. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vegas-tycoon-pokes-hole-in-a-picasso/

Oh the irony.

JL,

You have me roaring with laughter......legally blind......yes the irony is rich.

The cutting edge of Koons work is his work with kitsch objects. I get it in spades, but kitsch is kitsch even at the height of his career the art world reeled on that fact.

Dave

*R. Kipling, The Just So Stories

Cheryl,

Yes it is not lost on me(I had not read Kipling, but the idiom I was raised with. I just abuse the language too much to get it absolutely correct), but what is not any of our business must be respected.

Koons wants his super stardom and as Mario is pointing out others want the money. That is fair game.

The life of the artist is fragile at best. His art flawed and loved. His path to success ignored and derided. We do not have to make the forum hostile rubbing in those realities. Those that would not know that have long been fooled or never cared to begin with how all would work out.

As I said further up in the thread, I would not trust Koons to end up with any money at the end of the day. The process is very public if any of you want to watch this slow meltdown.


Dave

"Ah, jealousy."

Yup.... seems to run rampant whenever any artists name is mentioned that have gained any level of success....

"Yup.... seems to run rampant whenever any artists name is mentioned that have gained any level of success.... "

Yea, no one can have a legitimate criticism of the art of a successful artist. I get real tired of hearing that jealousy tune.

"Yea, no one can have a legitimate criticism"

That is not true and no one said that... but if the shoe fits....

And wouldn't critiquing the critics be just as fair?

Floyd,

Playing on Wall Street the surest way to lose money is to simply believe anything they tell you about how successful you will be.

Meaning that reportedly successful companies and stock brokers having others tag along is one of the greatest way for those tagging along to lose money.

How many failed companies were the toast of Wall Street. There is more selling of nonsense at the top than at the bottom on Wall Street.

I would actually say no one here is jealous of Koons at all. Not at all. We have honest points of view that all the art critics have brought up over the years as well.

Dave

That is not true and no one said that... but if the shoe fits....

I am a size 10, so the shoe does not fit.

The jealousy card is being used to shut down honest points of view.

Why criticize us? We are not being discussed here.

Let's specifically, but not on a personal basis, discuss our points on this.

Dave

There is no right or wrong here, only opinions, some more valid than others according to each individual's "opinion" expressed.

And not to mention that a healthy amount of jealousy is really not a bad thing. It goes more to the competitive side of one's nature. At least for those that are competitive and have not given up on themselves.

"nd wouldn't critiquing the critics be just as fair?"

That's not critiquing, it's just name calling, the lowest form of "discussion" there is, but that's what we've come to expect from the internet nowadays.

"The jealousy card is being used to shut down honest points of view. "

Couldn't be said better.

Floyd,

There is a side of me that regards Koons sculptures very highly. His definition of contemporary art is the best and he has been rewarded for it.

But he is having problems now. The problems are in his latest projects love them or hate them. The contemporary market is falling away price wise. Not all of his work is selling.

He honestly is not integrating his derivative concepts. Yes the materials are by far the best. Plastering 'Van Gogh' on a handbag is not a thought through concept.

His purchase of three studio spaces in mid town for $23.5 millions to own a much larger factory, and then not selling as much as hoped for and laying off painters.....it is what it is. He is still in Chelsea and now needs less space.

Remember Pollock only painted his splatters for about three years. Then Pollock less successfully moved on. Just a case in point of what happens as these creatives move on from their major concepts to other ideas.

Dave

It is NOT mane calling. It is an objective observation. You can either agree with it or not but it is not name calling.

I ask again:

And wouldn't critiquing the critics be just as fair?

In order for a critique to be valid, it would seem to me that it should be able to stand up to being challenged at least to some degree and defendable by the person making both positive and derogatory comments.

I made my "critique" and I am sure to some degree it is accurate. Oh, and for the record, this is one of the few times I agree with Dan T. That is the really scary part! lol

Carry on... I have said all I have to say....

Floyd, it is name calling, you can't possibly know the motives for our opinions. It's fair to argue your opinion against mine, it is not fair to say that me or any one else is jealous just because our opinion contradicts yours.

And wouldn't critiquing the critics be just as fair?

It has nothing to do with critiquing us.

Discuss our points of view one by one. That is totally fair game.

We keep telling you we are not jealous. That is a fact.

Dave

"We keep telling you we are not jealous. That is a fact. "

No, it is an opinion. As David K so eloquently points out, NO ONE can tell what is motivating any of our opinions. They are just opinions. They do not need to be proven valid or invalid in every sense of the word.

You or anyone one else, individually, say there is no jealousy in your opinion, then I accept that and never argue it on a one on one basis because there is no way of me or anyone else proving it one way or the other. But to suggest that some level of jealousy is never in play when artists are critiquing other artists, I would never agree to.That is what you two seem to be saying here.

I can not for the life of me see how this has touched off such a ridicules over reaction?

To suggest that there is beyond a shadow of a doubt, a total lack of jealousy involved in at least some criticisms of other artist is just not believable to me.

"But to suggest that some level of jealousy is never in play when artists are critiquing other artists, I would never agree to.That is what you two seem to be saying here. "

That's not what I am saying at all, I never said no one is jealous ever. I'm saying the accusation should not be made let alone assumed because that drags the discussion down to name calling and that is not helpful at all. I could say that someone that likes Koons art just has no taste, obviously that would be wrong and insulting, but how is it different than saying someone that does not like Koons art is simply jealous?

"it different than saying someone that does not like Koons art is simply jealous?"

No one said that. I and at least one other person merely suggested that the jealousy factor is or may be part of the motivation in some people's critique or comments.

It is, imho, a valid opinion. One that neither you nor I can prove or disprove on a case by case basis.

Now here is the really ironic thing about this "debate". I think you overreacted for some reason. I mean that very respectfully and I think David B did also.

What is ironic is that you two guys are the last ones that I would ever even suspect to have ever made a comment based on jealousy about Koon or any other artist that has or will be discussed here in the future.

But there is five years of history here where some of the same people have been consistent at making derogatory comments about every successful artist that has ever come up in the manner. After a while, one may begin to wonder and may even conclude that their reactions may be based on a bit of jealousy.

Sorry if that upset you.

"But there are five years of history here where some of the same people have been consistent at making derogatory comments about every successful artist that has ever come up in the manner"

That is simply not true Floyd, come on. I've even defended some, even Kinkade! You have a bad habit of talking in absolutes.

David K, please read your email!

I got the email now, will respond there.