Painters, Is It Cheating To Use A Projector?

I've never done it but it isn't cheating. If I were going to scale something up, perhaps onto a wall, projecting the image would be a good idea.

It is another tool.

Edit to add. It would have to be your own work used as the projected image.

I don't think it is cheating if you use your own image or one that you have permission to use.

No, it is a great tool to get your image traced, not painted, on your canvas. Also a great tool to use to see what the image looks like on different sizes of canvas and for doing murals. It is not cheating, it is working smarter. I have transferred images by drawing, by gridding, and carbon paper. The projector is faster and the most accurate. Be sure the setup is perpendicular to the work!

I have copied my own originals in larger sizes on canvas and have not opted for a projector...I just print out a copy of the original and divide it into 4 sections and transfer using my eyeballs instead.

If you are scaling things up it makes sense and speeds things up big time for a larger size canvas or mural. I've projected a drawing for a large exterior mural 20' x 50'. We had to work at night to get the drawing then painted during the day.

If you haven't the skill or discipline to draw and therefore tracing photos, then you may be cheating yourself more than anyone else IMHO. You will never learn to draw without putting in the time drawing. Today few seem to know that there is a difference in the way your eye sees and the way a photo lens sees things. Maybe it really doesn't matter much as long as the point is well made yet there are limitations and many differences. Commercial artists have been doing it forever usually to meet deadlines and with little artistic value placed on it for that.

I was in a critique class one time, and I mentioned that I used a projector on one of my larger canvases, to sketch the photo on the canvas before I painted it. The instructor almost walked me out.

I remember reading a book by a famous contemporary art forger, Ken Perenyi. He described the process of forging paintings in the style of Martin Johnson Heade, and he was floored when he discovered that Heade's passion flowers were created from templates and not drawn freehand.

Fascinating read, by the way. Perenyi went to great lengths to use authentic materials whenever possible, hunt down old frames which he would age to give his paintings more of an air of authenticity, and then spend hours painting in the style of any given artist just to get a feel for the work. Often he would walk into prestigious NY galleries with a forgery he had made, playing the part of a person who had inherited a painting from a relative and didn't know a thing about it, who painted it, etc. That tactic only worked for so long. He was never formally charged with forgery (though the authorities were hot on his tail) and now he paints "in the style of" and sells his work as original.

I never liked the projector method - seems I was always blocking what I wanted to 'trace'. I have used gridding quite a bit - I usually drew a small image on plain white paper then gridded it off into squares - depending on the size of the painting I was making. Using my own photographs, I've also drawn grid lines on the image and gone from there. Cheating - let the snobbery begin.

David,
I wasn't allowed to sketch on the canvas first in painting studios...it was PAINTING, not sketching class...I can still hear them all yelling!!

I'm not familiar with the method nor does it interest me, it sounds like cheating to me. I'm just starting to draw and I use no aides of any type other than my eyes. I think David Randall said it best. I always thought real artist did everything free hand, who knew?

I see it as just another tool. I haven't used it myself, but then again I don't have a proper place for that kind of set up. Even the masters used camera obscura, artists have been using tools like this for centuries to help with accuracy and speed things up. If you are not particularly skilled at what you are doing it will show in the end either way.

One can be in a hurry and open a can of ragu sauce and boil some noodles and call it pasta dinner, it would never pass the sniff test with me. Some would even call themselves a cook after doing so to. Lol! I personally make my sauces from scratch as with all our meals, no tv dinners of any type. In my freezer all you will find is ice and ice cream. In my artist tool box all you will find is pencils. charcoal sticks, pens, and paints. :-)

There is a great documentary called "Tim's Vermeer" where a retired millionaire from the tech industry tries to reproduce a Vermeer by employing the technology of the time including camera obscura. He had no art experience. I highly highly recommend it for any artsy fartsy types. It is pretty amazing.

Why is it cheating? It's just a tool. Past painters used many tools such as mirrors, frames, prisms, etc.. It's no different to saying that it's cheating to use modern materials.

~Richard
reevephotos.com

There is nothing wrong with using the tools available to you, if you so please. Are rulers cheating too because you didn't draw the strait line yourself? Is drawing from reference whether it be from a photo or from life cheating because it didn't come out of your head? Is it cheating to use an eraser? To some all these things are considered cheating. How far does this cheating go? Exploring tools and techniques can actually help grow artistic skill and staying too "pure" can actually hinder one's artistic growth. It is all comes down to the individual artist and what they hope to accomplish.

Why not just use tracing paper then? How many artist would feel comfortable about sharing these methods with their paying clients? I don't think it has anything to do with artsy fartsy ( what ever that may be).

Of course it's cheating! So what? Using copyrighted material seems to be ok too. Good artists copy, great artists steal.

Well, I'll be honest... I don't know the answer. All I can say is that I was always under the impression from early childhood that tracing was not allowed, at least not allowed to be called original. I've seen an "artist" that used the technique of projection of a photograph which he then painted and was his way of producing art for show and sale. I must say, I was disturbed and angered by it since I was under the impression that it was wrong. I'm willing to change my way of thinking however if someone can definitively say with proof from an ultimate art source, that it's accepted. Then and only then might I attempt it myself without reservation. It seems that it would certainly take the strain out of trying to be as skillful as I can.

I think I would feel much more comfortable if the projection technique was only used for your original painting to be enlarged and not your photo being enlarged and then traced. But... who am I to say? I need to be told definitively from someone in the know, and not just opinions (no offense to anyone on this thread).

of course not. since DaVinci's day they used i think a magic lantern. you don't have to do it free style. either a projector, or paint at the source.

its almost like asking - is it cheating to buy paint from tubes. instead of making it yourself.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Yeah, Tony, not a fan of copyright infringement. lol

But I think what people do with their own art is their business. My point is, no matter what someone does, there will be someone else who comes along and says "it's not art" or "it's cheating" or yatta yatta yatta just because it is not how they do things. To each their own. As I said before this has been going on for centuries. Many of the Master's did this technique or something similar. It is not new, it has always been a part of the art world. I also maintain that if you are not good at what you do, it is going to show. Tracing an initial outline will not make the painting come out good if you do not know how to paint, period. Infact there are many out there who cannot even trace. It will show in the finished piece, there are some things that you just cannot hide.

I did a little searching for this subject on the web and found this "blog" that pretty much sums up the opinions I've read here so far...

http://thevirtualinstructor.com/blog/is-it-ok-to-trace-in-art

Pretty good article Brian!

I see good points from everyone in both camps, that said I still refuse to eat canned pasta sauce, it's simply a matter of taste. In a blind test I'm sure everyone would choose the one made from scratch over the canned :-)

Thanks Shana. I haven't painted in a long time but always thought I'd go back to it some day. If I do, I may try this projection technique as a tool without the guilt I've always associated with it.

I don't see it as cheating at all. I would love to try it.

It is not cheating to trace, using a projector, or transfer one's own designs. If one uses other's work be it in the public domain, old masters copies or standing architecture and sculpture, citing the originator is a matter of ethics and will be viewed as such.

Why risk one's reputation when a simple citation would eliminate accusations of cheating?

I was recently accused by a miserably jealous artist of using one when I do not even own one! I have an antique school projector that I pull out once in a while to paint signs or lay out murals of my own drawings. I think if you use a projector from start to finish, yes, it is cheating. JMHO

I thought using projection and/or gridding was how gigantic paintings, signs (in the old days), murals were accomplished. How else can you get perspective right? Do you continuously walk away from your huge painting to see what is actually going up on your canvas/substrate? If so, how does anything ever get done? Perhaps if you're not painting realistically, it doesn't matter where you put the paint. I'm speaking of an initial gridding being done or an initial sketch on the substrate from a projected image. Once you have that, you paint without those tools

Disclaimer: I am not a painter, but did go to art school.

I use proportional dividers that I try to justify as not cheating, but tracing or using a projector just seems way over the line.

Joy, in those cases you should use a projector, grid method or any other means to facilitate getting the job done... a means to an end, you are correct in thinking that. If for example, it was a mural of say, a beer label, the company would just want it to look like their product, and not interested in whether the artist thinks it is cheating or not and wants to freehand it creating their own interpretation... or get as close to it as possible, without using any available aids ;)

I think its kinda cheating. Drawing is an artistic skill and using the grid method is using the eye hand skill of a true artist in my opinion

An artist that uses tools to that extent to me is more of a craftsman. A crafter uses tools

I can almost see mild mannered and polite Norman Rockwell, pipe-in-hand, saying to a studio visitor, "I'm sorry, but I can't let you leave..."

Thanks for that insight, Ken! :)

'welcome!

To answer the question and not get led off into a conversation about copying someone's work besides your own - is using a projector cheating? No.

If you are using a projector because you have not developed drawing skills then it is cheating...cheating yourself. Developing good drawing skills is not only foundational it is freeing. If you are using a projector to expedite the process due to time constraints, (though if you draw well enough time shouldn't be an issue either) then it is not cheating, but it can be limiting if you don't have the skills to make expressive modifications beyond what the projector gives you.

Just for clarification, using perspective in a larger scale image does not dictate a need for the use of a projector. perspective methods follow specific rules regardless of scale. A straight edge can be replaced with a long string; an angle at small scale doesn't change when it is scaled up; vertical lines can be achieved with plumb lines.

I would tend to believe that a projector may create a possible distortion.

Drew, when using a projector, you have to know how and when to use it intelligently. As you indicate in some sense, and yes you can get distortions, actually that is more likely the norm, there would be at least a small degree of distortion, you can not just follow the projection in blind faith it will have it all perfectly correct, but as a tool or aid it can be helpful or in some instances at least, it can prove to be very useful. It all depends on the situation.

In my opinion there is no such thing as 'cheating' in art. Cheating implies that there are certain rules you have to follow, to me that is exactly opposite of what art is about. For me, the artistic value of artwork is not in the difficulty of creating the work, but in the amount of creativity and the beauty of the end result.

Some artists use techniques that even a 2-year old can apply, like throwing paint at a canvas. Still, succesful artists creating their work like that know which color to use, where to aim, how hard to throw, in order to get a beautiful end result. As long as you do not copy the work of other artists, I think pretty much everything is allowed to produce your work.

Joy, was that insight you mentioned referring to Norman Rockwell? lol

Rockwell cheated his all American azzoff if you call tracing photos cheating! Many of his scenes were staged, photographed and characterized. It was graphic art intended for mass media consumption through a periodical.

To do this well wouldn't you have to project through the back of the canvas to avoid blocking the light source?

Here is a very talented artist (Adonna Khare) who won Artpize in 2012 for her gigantic pencil drawing of elephants. I don't think she used a projector, but even if she did, she didn't take someone else's pic and project it on a wall to copy it.

http://www.emptykingdom.com/featured/adonna-khare-and-her-pencil/


Another person won artprize in 2010 - A picture of a whole Cavalry of soldiers. He found a print and projected it on the wall to do this.

http://absolutemichigan.com/michigan/2010-artprize-winner-cavalry-american-officers-1921-by-chris-laporte/

I don't feel like copying an image no matter how large is creative or art. I feel that I have been deceived all these years. To think I just had a thread calling photographers technicians of technology and painters artists. I feel like an idiot now that I know this.

I bought a projector after learning some people use one and its fine.

I tried to get the art onto the canvas and to trace it

My shadow fell over it and no matter what I did I couldn't actually see the image till I moved away

Projector in cupboard

I draw freehand

"I don't feel like copying an image no matter how large is creative or art."

I agree, it makes even less sense to me when a copyist wins a major art award.

David,

Did you see the award the second link I posted won? - $250,000

I do a lot of my pre-drawings on 9X11 or 11-14 in sizes. I also have a projector and have traced to a larger size that is proportionally correct. My belief is it's not cheating when you use your own artwork to improve on it size. I wouldn't condone using this method on someone elses art or photography..... which to me is as good as stealing! I never traced the whole piece onto the canvas. I work on reference points of my subject and then freehand from there. I think of it as a minor tool in creating a larger piece of art. Haven't used my projector in quite a few years, however, its there at my use if needed.

Is it wrong? Nope. Just make sure that if you wanted to draw it and you had the time you could.

under what curcumstance would using a projector be concidered cheating? It is used to trace, enlarge, or decrease.

"I don't feel like copying an image no matter how large is creative or art. I feel that I have been deceived all these years. To think I just had a thread calling photographers technicians of technology and painters artists. I feel like an idiot now that I know this."

We're a crafty bunch...

I used a projector years ago, but not now. Rather just do freehand since it suits my current style.

Still don't think it's "cheating" if there is such a thing as applied to this.

Bill Tomsa

https://billtomsa.blogspot.com/