Image Sizes In Photos - Is 25 Mb Enough?

forget about dpi, we use straight pixels here. you'll have to use a level 11, 10 or 9 to get it down. just make sure its not blocky. some images you'll have to reduce in size.

your images are only like 3000px, are you saving this as a PSD or TIFF? that's the only way it could be 80mb.

you can't resize the images unless you want it smaller. if the images look poor printed large then i would remove those prices or change your method in editing. psedo jpg HDR brings out all the noise in an image, as does over sharpening them.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I have a good few 'busy' colorful 4000x4000 px images, saved as .png and coming in at between 15 and 25 MB. I had one go over at 25.1 MB and saved it as .jpg level 11 I think which brought it down to 5.5 MB. Somewhere else here in the forum Abbie said .jpg to level 10 is okay, so I wouldn't go below that.

Are you saving as a jpeg? Are you checking the size of the compressed jpeg image? What is the original pixel dimensions? It sounds to me like you are not checking the MB properly. I check the saved file by hovering over the file in Windows. Also if you would just give the pixel dimensions it makes it a bit easier.

Cordia,

Welcome! Nice work over at your place! In Photoshop, when done editing, and ready to a "Save As", you'll see the number 12 as the highest "quality" when saving. I typically have images UNDER 25 MB. But when they go over, I just slide the number over to 11 and that usually is enough. Can go down as far as 10 quality. Back when I first joined, 2012, I sold a few LARGE prints, 4 feet x 6 feet, and the files sizes were even smaller than today's larger sensor captures!

I assume you are "flattening" the layers and saving as an 8 bit jpeg file. Your print sizes offered seem small-ish, I would think they should be at least 40" x 60", mine go to 48 x 72".....

Hope this helps....

Rich

Hi, your images are very fuzzy and soft looking with the FAA close-up loupe. This may be why larger sizes cannot be accommodated.

Any time you upload an image, check it all over with the loupe. I look at my image at 300% in Photoshop before I upload.

Thank you all for your responses to my thread. I am sure I am doing something wrong. I do flatten all. Many of my images are originally 80 mb as I use a Nikon D 800 much of the time. I save them all to jpg. What I have been doing lately is bringing them down to 240 dpi rather than the 300 which keeps the size smaller but ability to print larger. I need to re-look at everything now and being that I have tons of images already up there and the originals are in other files all over the place, to redo them would take forever. I may just have to limit print sizing for now. Thx again.

forget the dpi, what it sounds like your going is enlarging the image to meet the 300dpi. keep only the native pixels. make sure your image is flat, its really a jpg, not something renamed into a jpg. if its too big save at a level 11 or 10, 9 is the limit.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Don't change the dpi!

I'm beginning to make files that can print to ginormous dimensions. Many exceed 50 mb. I do not want to degrade image quality just to get them under 25 meg, especially for huge prints, so haven't posted them here. Abbie, do you foresee Sean increasing file size limit to accommodate anytime soon?

P.S. Cordia, your work is really outstanding!

How large are your original files and then what are you doing to them to create such huge files?

I'm shooting with a 26 megapixel camera never seem to run into the limit, unless I'm combining a bunch of shoots for HDR or something.

Kathleen,

Really not a concern. As I've mentioned here, have sold large 4 foot x 6 foot prints, from really small files, as far as Mbs. Just use the "quality" slider and get the file size under 25 and you're good to go! From 12 down to 11 should be all that you need and even a "10" has been stated here as good for the large prints....

Rich

Rich, I know you are trying to be helpful but obviously I know how to use the slider to degrade JPGs in PS. I also know that huge prints can be sold from small files. My point is that I do not wish to compromise the quality of my prints just to accommodate a file size limit of 25 meg. That was a realistic limit years ago and probably is still an acceptable limit for the majority of images but IMO, the limit should be increased to allow for larger file sizes.

Kathleen,

LARGER than 4 x 6 FEET? What am I missing?

Rich

I am going to swamp you with information, but it will help in the future for any questions you have size-wise.

The image size will depend on the pixels size of the image you took or created, less any cropping you have done. We then create the prints that will fit that size and smaller, if you have priced them.

When you upload an image, our software takes the longer dimension and fits it to the following sizes:

8 inches x (xx)
10 inches x (xx)
12 inches x (xx)
14 inches x (xx)
16 inches x (xx)
20 inches x (xx)
etc...

The smaller dimension (xx) is then scaled proportionally to maintain the aspect ratio of your image.

Our largest print available is 108" x 48"

You are setting your prices based on the size of the longest dimension

4800 pixels is 48" at 100ppi So you can work out your sizes really before even uploading. Do not ever change your ppi as you do not need to.

We allow 25mb only and you can change the compression as low as 10 before it hurts the image

NEVER enlarge your images (change the pixel size to a larger one) as that degrades the print quality and we will refuse to print and, if your images are too large file size, you can compress to 10 in Photoshop before losing quality

If you sell an image we will refuse to print if the image shows.......

Pixellation
Blockiness
Bad cropping
Blurriness not in keeping with the image (ie not meant to be there)
normal font signature (Arial, Times New Roman etc)
signature cropped half off the image
large watermarks
noticeable camera flash
Upsized images

We do not do quality control until you sell so, it is your responsibility to quality control your images carefully before uploading. You do this by zooming in a photo editor to 100% and then carefully going over the image, checking for the above defects

We require Adobe RGB or sRGB and do not accept CMYK or ProPhoto

If you choose not to sell something, leave the space for markup totally blank. Not even a space.

Search pages (such as particular product searches) take 24 hours after the prices added to be shown

When uploading, you can say you want standard sizing but they will be cropped if you do that, centrally. Unfortunately, you can't make your images fit into standard sizes without cropping the images.

Think about the aspect ratios of various "standard sizes":

5 x 7 (0.714 ratio of height / width)
8 x 10 (0.800 ratio of height / width)
11 x 14 (0.786 ratio of height / width)

If your image is 1500 pixels x 2000 pixels (0.750 ratio), you can't make it fit into any standard size without cropping or stretching.

On FAA, we don't do either without your permission. We print your images at their natural sizes and then custom mat and frame them, if desired. To have them cropped then you will need to tick that area in your Behind the Scenes

Templates are for creating sized images to fit on the products
If your images do not work well as-is when you load them, you can create customised images ready to add to the work

1. Create the customised image in your editor
2. Upload or edit your main print image
3. Scroll down to the product areas
4. See Customise and Image
5. Click image to load your customised image shaped for the product
6. SUBMIT

APPAREL https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/clothing-20?v=1234
BATTERY CHARGER https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/battery-5200?v=1234
BEACH TOWEL https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/beachtowel-32-64?v=1234
COFFEE MUG https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/coffeemug-11?v=1234
DUVET COVER https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/duvetcover-queen?v=1234
FLEECE BLANKET https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/blanket-coral-50-60?v=1234
PHONE COVER https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/iphone7?v=1234
POUCH https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/pouch-regularbottom-medium?v=12341234
ROUND TOWEL https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/beachtowelround?v=1234
SHOWER CURTAIN https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/showercurtain?v=1234
SPIRAL NOTEBOOK https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/spiralnotebook?v=1234
TAPESTRY https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/tapestry-50-61?v=1234
THROW PILLOW https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/throwpillow-14-14?v=1234
TOTE BAG https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/totebag-18-18?v=1234
WEEKENDER BAG https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/totebagweekender-24-16-white?v=1234
YOGA MAT https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/product-template/yogamat?v=1234

Hi,

I am making a 40x60 inch image which is 300 Pixels/Inch (PPI). I have read all the suggestions. I am a expert photoshop user, digital artists and designer. I am familiar with JPG compression.

The advice states "We allow 25mb only and you can change the compression as low as 10 before it hurts the image"

Agree that JPG compression under 10 potentially degrades. But it is not possible to stay above JPG 10 and be below 25 MB. Having to go down between 7-4 depending on the image.

Can you advise how to proceed without losing quality?

Thank you all for your time!

300 dpi is necessary when You look very close. But nobody looks at a 40x60 so close that In a museum You would trigger an alarm. FAA therefore prints down to 100 dpi.
I wonder how You get this size with 300 ppi which means 12,000x18,000 pixels. Do You stitch together photos/scans of parts of an artwork ?

As i said and explained previoulsy in another thread, the 25Mb limit is a huge issue and fence to a good high quality work. This limit need to be raise ASAP. We can't lower quality of our artwork just because the website is limiting upload over 25M

https://gregory-dubus.pixels.com

300dpi - don't worry about that, because chances are your image may be enlarged to get that. they stretch the pixels here on the large images. the unfortunate thing is, if you have a very large image, it still has to some how fit under the limbo bar of 25mb.

i just can't see him raising the limit. i've been asking since i started here. and that was like 7 years ago or so. camera's are getting bigger, and the picture will be better. and all other sites have a higher amount. but for now your stuck. if you can get it at 27mb, it will often send, maybe even 28mb.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

It's not being raised right now, no.

Sad !

http://gregory-dubus.pixels.com

I post (and sell) files on other sites that I would have to degrade significantly to upload here. I don't understand the business logic of refusing to raise file size limit here when it means that FAA will potentially lose sales of high quality images because they are being posted and sold elsewhere on sites that accept larger file sizes. Why give the competition that advantage?

i never got that either. we print bigger things here, and we should be the best. compromising color and size just to upload here? i never got that. like 100dpi might be good, but if the next place over can print it higher, and it looks better, we are the ones that will look cheap. and space is cheap these days.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Olga,

Welcome! Most people here get nervous about this 25MB limit, but really not an issue. I've sold HUGE 4 foot by 6 foot prints here from files, probably half that size and no returns. Now all my images uploaded are on the long side, 6820 and still under 25mb, most under 20mb.

I used to have access to an Epson 9900 printer that could print 44" wide and would send huge files to it, 200 MB or larger then, but here on FAA, not needed for good prints,

Rich

On my wall at home i have a 45" acrylic from here. The image is a 72ppi I've never changed the ppi, ever.

It is amazing quality!

Hi,

Thank you everyone for responding! I am new to FAA. I wanted to include my post from another thread here because I don’t know if many people saw it. It doesn’t appear to be showing up in the main discussions page. Here is the link if people can see it and summary below:

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=5076230

Protocols For Canvas Size, Pixels / Inch, And Jpg Compression

I am looking to set a canvas size production outline in photoshop for large scale images to determine protocols for canvas size, Pixels/Inch, and JPG compression.
For example a 40x60 inch canvas at 300 Pixels/Inch has a width of 12000 Height of 18000

I have read the document from Abbie the starts with “I am going to swamp you with information”

Here is select information from that document related to the size and compression:

“The image size will depend on the pixels size of the image you took or created
Our largest print available is 108" x 48"
4800 pixels is 48" at 100ppi So you can work out your sizes really before even uploading. Do not ever change your ppi as you do not need to.
We allow 25mb only and you can change the compression as low as 10 before it hurts the image”

In general standard printing protocols require 300 Pixels/Inch as to not degrade image quality. A 40x60 inch canvas at 300 Pixels/Inch has a width of 12000 Height of 18000.
I agree JPG compression under 10 degrades. But it is not possible to stay above 10 and be below 25 mb. I am having to use compression somewhere between 7-4.

Can you advise how to proceed without losing quality?

Thanks so much for your time!

100dpi works for this site. you won't gain advantage sending an 18,000px image here. i'd need to see your close up, but you have it turned off - whether your stuff would print or not.

the 108" size - is for panorama only. the last 3 sizes are pano crop. the normal largest size is 72". my advice is, reduce the file size to 6200-10,000px at the largest, if you can't reduce the size enough.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Hi everyone,

Thank you again for everyone responding! I wanted to post my initial inquiry (above) so you could follow the logic.

We found FAA / Pixels services because of the large canvas sizes available. We were very impressed with a print service highly dedicated to artists' work.
We also valued the variety of canvas, framed and metal prints available along with various options. We also valued a print process with mechanisms in place for high-quality prints. For example, guidelines outlined: “If you sell an image we will refuse to print if the image shows.......Pixellation, Blockiness, Bad cropping, Blurriness not in keeping with the image (ie not meant to be there)… etc” This brings confidence in a service that has attention to quality and detail.

What was surprising was the file size limit. With large canvas, sizes come increased PPI, and then increased file size.
300 DPI / PPI is an industry-standard for high-quality printing results. Generally without the proper pixel density in the source file will result in pixelation degradation, blurriness, and a high potential for low-quality prints. Occasionally there is flexibility with lower DPI / PPI. But 300 PPI is usually considered a minimum resolution.

The responses advised and advocated 100 PPI. This was surprising to us. In our experience, there has never been a job in production for myself or a client, or colleagues— lower than 300 PPI. This includes art, marketing work, TV & Film print work, etc. I decided to call around today and inquire with multiple services to see if the online digital printing market was different. They all require 300 PPI as a minimum. Some had file limits that were far high between 50-100 mg. Others had no file size limits.

My first instinct was to do the best we could with the compression. I had not even considered lowering the PPI to 100. As I said lower than 300 PPI usually produces low-quality results. Also, lowering compression (below JPG 10) could potentially create degradation and a lower quality image. But at least low compression still maintained a high enough pixel density to hopefully produce a decent quality print.

Is there something unique about the FAA / Pixels printing process that can achieve such high-quality results without degradation using such low PPI, low files size and compression?
We are very interested in using the service and want to ensure a high-quality result. But we are very concerned by the file size limit and the 100 PPI print protocol recommendation.

Thank you again for responding to my earlier posts! I appreciate all your time and sharing your expertise.

your not lowering the DPI. we don't use dpi, we only use the overall pixel size it is. if your scanner or whatever makes a scan at 10,000px, that is the size. i don't know what they do to get the detail on a large print, never saw it up close, but also can't imagine people getting so close to a large work to see the detail in it. i have rarely had a problem with a print here and rarely do i get a large print back. so i assume its of high quality. but your stuck with the limit either way.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

I keep two files - one is Tiff or PNG and the other Jpeg. Depending on the end MG - it comes to FAA in the better lossless file. I do not use photoshop but a program by Serif that will allow the file to be saved either as JPEG or the other. The jpeg always comes in under the 25 MG.

https://royd-erickson.pixels.com/

Olga,

Did you read my post? No worries about large prints here,

Rich

I have multiple large prints in my home from FAA, some taken with a APC sensor camera which was about 15ish MB's, and they look amazing. I have also sold numerous images at the largest sizes FAA offers for my full frame camera (the size escapes me at the moment) and I have never gotten a quality email from FAA or a return on any of them. I honestly think some take too much time worrying about this.

"I honestly think some take too much time worrying about this."

Amazing, isn't it, that they will not listen to (or believe) someone who actually works here and others that have been selling here for years. LOL

There really is a difference in prepping files for magazine reproduction (think slick/glossy) and printing for art display.

Thank everyone for all your responses! We really appreciate you all taking the time to respond and be helpful. We appreciate all the assurances of quality. To evaluate suggested results a print production pipeline with technical specs are needed. For example Canvas size / Inch, PPI, Pixel Aspect ratio height width, and then JPG compression settings. The ultimate proof would be seeing the final print output of a large scale print. Industry standard 25 mg is quite a limit to create a high quality large scale print.

We were surprised by the 100 PPI suggestion because the industry standard requires 300 dpi. No print company has ever accepted a file below 300 DPI / PPI -- they would never guarantee a quality print without a 300 PPI /DPI file.

Thank you everyone for all your responses. Small prints probably can fit these parameters. We are still very concerned about quality for a large print.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your response and suggestion.

You wrote: "your not lowering the DPI. we don't use dpi, we only use the overall pixel size it is. if your scanner or whatever makes a scan at 10,000px, that is the size"

Yes that makes sense. We understand that pixels and pixel aspect ratio of width and height is what is used for printing. We are only using PPI /DPI as a base measure to indicate the overall pixel aspect ratio relative to printed scale required for a high quality print. We also mentioned since 100 PPI was suggested as a standard to meet this 25 mg file limit.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.

Is this forum for FAA production team as well?

this forum is mostly for artists that know too much stuff. and for people that like to goof off more than work.

be sure to have an avatar or the search won't list you.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Hi,

We called around to more POD fine art drop shipping which require / recommend/ only accept 300 PPI. These providers also have larger file size upload abilities. 300 PPI is the industry standard. Searching basic print guidelines and technical specs on the internet will provide examples that 300 PPI is the minimum for a good quality print.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density
"Industry standard, good quality photographs usually require 300 pixels per inch, at 100% size, when printed onto coated paper stock, using a printing screen of 150 lines per inch (lpi). This delivers a quality factor of 2, which is optimum. The lowest acceptable quality factor is considered 1.5, which equates to printing a 225 ppi image using a 150 lpi screen onto coated paper.”

FAA's dedication to artists and variety of options is very appealing. However the recommendation of 100 PPI for a potential loss in quality is concerning.