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Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

Full Timers- How Did You Know?

Hey everyone, question for you full time artists out there. How did you know it was time to go full time?

Background- I worked as a freelance sports photographer early in my career and enjoyed the flexibility and freedom, and made decent money. The industry changed and gradually found my way into corporate America. Then I followed an opportunity to a tech startup that looked promising but failed, and found myself unemployed for a year. I began working in photo speciality retail, while also photographing more and found a steady increase in sales here and in brick-and-mortar locations. It's become a solid part-time income. But now, I find myself limited by the amount of time I have available, rather than the amount of opportunities I am finding to sell my work. I find myself wondering, if I went full time as a self-employed photographer, would those opportunities which I'm currently putting off, be enough to make a full time living? Right now, I'm leaning towards yes.

All that said, I'm considering seeing if my current employer would allow me to switch to a part-time role, to keep some semblance of a steady income in place. Also, they have an education program I am heavily involved with that I would like to continue my involvement with.

Health insurance isn't the issue- I am getting married in December and my fiance has an excellent benefits package I can get on rather affordably. My fiance is hugely supportive and has assured me she thinks we can do make it work. But after my past layoff, it obviously scares the crap out of me.

Interested in hearing thoughts on those who've made the leap. Are there any out there?

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Cynthia Decker

5 Years Ago

For me, I started being so busy with the art business that I had to make a choice. At the time I was able to calculate my sales and the time I spent at each job, and discovered that I made more per hour building the art business than I did at the print shop. I told myself I'd make the jump after 3 months of consecutively making more with art than with the day job.

3 months later, I quit the day job, and I've never looked back. That was 14 years ago.

I think going part time at your current job might be a great way to transition. It would allow you to take some of these new opportunities and see if you enjoy a more full time experience with your photography business.

 

Mike Savad

5 Years Ago

when my company downsized me. and i happen to get lucky as far as selling well enough to keep it as a job. just wish it was more consistent.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Marlene Burns

5 Years Ago

I never had any other day job....

 

Philip Duff

5 Years Ago

The economy is great at present. People/companies have money for discretionary photo/art purchases. But consider if/when economy goes into recession in the future. Discretionary funds for photography/art will be quick to shrink. IMO keep your day job and do what you can part-time.

 

Roger Swezey

5 Years Ago

The time was right

It was at the point in my life, when I faced the nitty-gritty of having my own architectural firm.

After years, of having the confidence of a well known architect (Wallace K. Harrison), allowing me to create with no concern of cost, major aspects of some of the more notable edifices of the mid 20th century...It was a heady time.

When that time ended, I went into a disastrous partnership in industrial design.. Ending up with me inventing a new shoebox that had great potential but went nowhere


What was an occasional happening, turning into a pastime, and then therapy, sticking crab claws into mussel shells became all encompassing of my time, energy, and creativity.

The time was right, to put my creations out for the public's consideration. It was the time (80's) when hand-made art was truly appreciated.

And I rode the wave, until now, when the wave has just become a minor ripple..


As I mention before in other threads, someone who knew me, B.V. (before vultures), said to me, coming upon me peddling my art. on a street in Manhattan, that she was amazed that I found something that satisfied my neurosis perfectly.

1. I had to be creative
2. It had to be different
3. I had to be in control...Even if it's just 10'x10' space

So it be,...So it be


 

Peggy Collins

5 Years Ago

I've known for a couple of decades, which is when I had my last "day" job. Been self-employed most of my life. It's the only way to go! (Just call me a control freak.)

But one thing you have to watch out for, and that's when you start to become a bad boss to yourself and work yourself too hard. I'm verging on that now.

One thing on the negative end of the scale is that here in Canada, if you're self-employed and start earning decent income, the tax man makes you pre-pay your taxes. So this year I'm paying double, for last year and this year's projected earnings. It hurts!

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

Thanks everyone. In response to Philip, I'll just say that in my experience, a full time job relying on another entity is no more secure than me relying on myself and the economy. I worked for Canon for 7 years. I managed to get out of there for another opportunity before they downsized by 500 people, or I would have been one of them. Then the company I left them for, Lytro, gave up chasing their technology and laid everyone off. Job security is a myth.

I'm leaning towards making the leap. Just waiting to see how the holiday season does. Unless it completely tanks, I can see myself focusing more on this (and other photographic endeavors) full time.

 

David King

5 Years Ago

" the tax man makes you pre-pay your taxes. So this year I'm paying double, for last year and this year's projected earnings. It hurts!"

The IRS does this as well, you are required to pay estimated quarterly taxes, they just can't wait the full year to get a hold of your money you know.

I'm not a full time artist, pretty sure I never will be, even after I retire from my current "career". If I lose my job before I'm ready to retire I'll work harder on the art "business" but my guess is I'll just end up in another job before the art generates any income to speak of. While I don't love my job I'm just not really the self employment type.

 

Peggy Collins

5 Years Ago

I agree with that assessment, Rick. Job security is indeed a myth. I know so many people who were employed in what they thought were lifetime jobs, holding on for dear life until they got their pensions, only to get turfed in the end due to all kinds of reasons.

It ain't easy being self-employed and it isn't for the lazy either but IMO it's the only way to go.

ETA: David, I didn't know they did this in the USA as well. It was a big shock to me when it happened and it still blows my mind!

 

Marlene Burns

5 Years Ago

Peggy, in the US, they are tax estimates, paid quarterly. They must match what you made the previous year or there is a penalty the following year. I'ts best to keep track of one's earnings and if it varies greatly from the previous year, call your accountant and up the estimates!

 

David Bridburg

5 Years Ago

Rick,

I am well able to get by on a part time job. Restaurant jobs at times can pay more than retail by quite a lot. But the labor involved is not for most.

I have also made and lost money in the past and present elsewhere. So while I am not set for retirement, I do not want labor as I get older. "IF" I ever manage to sell my art, and tastes are constantly changing, if it was in my late 60s onward, I'd actually be better off. Yes a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush, but art is much lower stress, actually reduces my stress, and if I get paid much later, it would be when I need the money.

I register my images to have control over my property beyond the grave.

I am now more full time marketer. Part time worker. And will very soon be practicing piano roughly 3 hours per day. Composing really should in only my opinion be my career. The economy is so good right now my reserve accounts are now getting there to buy a keyboard. Plus I met the sound man at the Wadsworth in Hartford during an Opening I was using to market my art. He suggested used keyboards at the major instrument outlets are cheaper than I had thought. I can get what I want in excellent condition. Also Yamaha in the last couple of years added the P45 board and the costs are now lower.

I am aiming to buy the keyboard in the next four weeks. I am still sussing out my needs. The sound man suggested a Casio for less money yet. I am not yet sure the quality will be there in the Casio.

Dave

 

JC Findley

5 Years Ago

The choice to go full time when I was doing it was easy as jobs were hard to come by in my field so decided to try and make a living wirh art.

I'll say this. Art as a second income is a LOT nicer that relying on it.

 

Peggy Collins

5 Years Ago

Marlene, good advice I'm sure but I still hate it! I'm a little too haphazard for good record-keeping but yeah, I hear you.

 

Adam Jewell

5 Years Ago

I quit my job in 2010. When I started it in 2001 I’d gotten flushed out of the last job when the .com bubble crashed.

When I moved to Philly I set everything up so I could live on an unemployment check if I had to. Day job was at an online agency and then evenings and weekends were spent cranking out cash as a big affiliate of Zappos, lots of personals sites and about 100 other sites.

I was saving 85% to 90% of my income for a while.

I still have that same crappy apartment and can get by on about $1,200/month. FAA covers rent and cel phone. Savings and municipal bond interest covers the rest. It’s a slow cash burn that I’ll need to change in the not too distant future.

To voluntarily be unemployed, I think I’d look at the worst income scenario for a year and do the math to see if it’s possible to make it through a year like that without having to take on debt or cash in any retirement accounts.

If you’re averaging a markup of somewhere around $150.00 per sale (that’s about where I am and your pricing looks similar) then based on your sales numbers that’s a pretty good chunk of cash as a baseline, especially if health insurance is pretty reasonable. Add on sales through traditional retail channels and I’d guess that is around $25-$30k.

If I had a year of cash in hand and photo income like that I think I’d try cutting job hours first and see how it goes. If more time translates into more profits from photography then maybe it’s time to make the jump. If not then maybe it’s best to hold steady.

If more time translates to more driving time then that’s like free money with the mileage write off.

If taxable income is above $30,000 then it’s a good time to start a SEP IRA if you have the cash to max it out. If you’re self employed and have no employees then you can put 20% of your income in there which is a lot better than just a regular IRA at higher incomes.

This is one of the longest bull markets we’ve had in quite a while and at some point in the probably not too distant future that will at least slow down if not reverse. Just one more consideration.

 

Edward Fielding

5 Years Ago

Nothing beats a steady paycheck. Your mortgage lender loves it. Your car loaner loves it...

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

My mental health hates it. I may not have explicitly stated but it's not like all I would be doing is selling my work. I teach workshops, and would continue that, and if my employer is willing, I would do some work part time. But I want more time to focus on this. It's time. Things are breaking right.

 

Edward Fielding

5 Years Ago

Personally I think photography has the worst pay off ratio of any career. You have expensive equipment, travel expenses, gas, marketing etc. How many other jobs require so much outlay in expenses before you see a return? Mc Donald's even gives out free uniforms and free food.

But maybe it's time to look up Mr. Money Mustashe and join the cult - https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/

Just be sure the future spouse is fully committed to the lifestyle.

 

Chuck Staley

5 Years Ago

When CBS Television was bought by one of the conglomerates, naturally cutting costs and jobs was the first priority.

They were going to move the CBS News West Coast group to New York and have everything under one roof.

My roots and family are in Los Angeles, so I had to say, "No thank you..."

It was a couple of years after that and free-lance directing that I discovered that maybe I could make a living as an artist.

Well, I haven't so far, but I'm having a hell-of-a-good time.

 

Marlene Burns

5 Years Ago

I taught art for a half second in another life....I would have died, so my choice to open my own business was a life or death situation.
Besides, my mom said I'd be a starving artist and I was young enough to have to prove her wrong.
Congratulations on your upcoming marriage, Rick!

 

David Bridburg

5 Years Ago

Rick,

If you take all art careers as high risk, what are those risks? Finance, business, and economic. They specifically are not the classic odds of gambling.

Now if you compare all artists, but with no specific artists in mind, many many artists or photographers are extremely skilled.

The problem is skill v concept. Skill is loved and can pay, but no matter how beautiful can be priced as pedestrian. The concept is quackery, and seen as such. But if it strikes the right market can truly be rewarding.

On that basis just as a thought experiment where do you fit in?

The only thing all of this should do is give you pause. One problem is location, if you are not working galleries, prices for prints online are much softer.

Just a note on my prices, I came down to an upper middle class buyer's level. Targeting more households earning $150k and up.

Just my opinions watching for the last few years. The facts are a sale is a sale, but influence v affluence......most of us at our ages do not have influence.

Dave

 

M G Whittingham

5 Years Ago

Rick to ease the transition and to make sure it works for you, have you considered asking for a short-term leave of absence from your day job - say 6 to 8 weeks. It probably won't break your bank and it would give you great insight into whether you want to do it full time.

Time is a challenge for all artists, but I don't think time scales in a linear manner, especially when it comes to artistic endeavours. For example, let's say with your full time job you only have 2 hours a day on average to work on your photography. Quitting your day job so that you can devote (say) 8 hours a day to photography in theory should mean that you can get 4 times more done. That's the theory. In reality, it is probably a lot less for most people.

Just a thought - you might want to consider doing a trial run before you make the full-time leap.

 

David Randall

5 Years Ago

Starting any business is similar. You'll never know until you take that leap. Having enough cash to run without income for at least a year helps big time. Most businesses fail because they are underfunded.

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

I thought I mentioned, but I am planning to go part time at my job, assuming my employer is amenable. I serve several functions here, and I would basically be looking to scale back my involvement in one part of the business. In this way I still have a steady source of income (albeit reduced) while freeing up significant time to focus on my work. I have at least a half dozen untapped avenues of sales simply because I have no time to devote to them. Living in a tourist destination gives me options there. But I need time to do it and right now the time seems right.

 

David King

5 Years Ago

Sounds like you should take the shot Rick, good luck.

I could actually drop down to 30 hrs/week at my current job and still maintain full benefits and I could live on that reduced income okay however I don't know what I'd do with that extra time that would be any more productive than what I'm doing now, (which is to say nothing I've been doing has produced much in the way of sales.)

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

Health benefits aren't the issue for me because as of January 1 I'll be on my fiance's benefits (we're getting married December 30). The only real issue is bringing in enough money to pay the bills. The holidays will tell. If my sales this year rival or exceed last year's, it's a go. If not, I'll just keep things as is.

Here in Portland, we have cruise ships in about 10-15 days through the summer. Artists can set up for free in the port and sell. I've never been able to because I work full time. There are countless festivals throughout the year geared towards selling art. No time. Tons of galleries (I need to find a new one, pulling out of one that's not been profitable). Plus gift shops, my online presence, etc. Just need more time. Or another me. No one wants that, though!

 

George Robinson

5 Years Ago

Be careful about asking employer to work part time. I did that and they laid me off full time

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

I hear you George, but I have *some* leverage there, I believe. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm misreading it. The portion of the business I'm looking to scale back is one where I'm easily replaced. The area I want to continue and increase my involvement is one where it would be a sizable loss for them if I were to leave.

 

Lisa Kaiser

5 Years Ago

From all the posts I've read, I would like to say that I would love to do art full time.

This is my fourth year in selling art and I am now selling every week at my gallery; this is a huge milestone for me. I cannot state how hard it is to put aside what I want to do and paint what sells. Not all of those paintings can be posted on FAA because many of them are inspired art from other artists who have given me permission to paint this or that but not post here as my original idea.

The art business is hard, but it has to be a business of integrity or there will never be original works or inspired works. What was the question? I need to look at that, just a sec.

Okay that said, I love my day job; it's not as challenging or competitive and I have great friends at my real job. I still wish that one day, I'll gain the confidence to fly away and take my prey with the thorny bony claws that will take me the rest of the way to success and actualization of what I'm called to do.

Best of luck on your voyage away from dependence on other entities for money, Rick. I want you to succeed.

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

Thanks Lisa. I'm still not totally decided, but I think it's clear which way I'm leaning. I've had another solid month here at FAA, so if the holidays this year are as good or better than last year, that will likely push me over the edge. The wildcard is my employer. I want to stay involved on the education side and stay part time in sales. If they say no, that will give me something to think about. I'd like not to burn the bridge here- I enjoy the teaching and workshops on photography and I've built a nice following doing so. They've shown flexibility with others in the past so I'm hopeful something can be worked out.

 

M G Whittingham

5 Years Ago

Good luck Rick. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this and are ready to go.

Do let us know how it turns out - lessons learned and that sort of thing.

 

Rick Berk

5 Years Ago

Thanks MG. Not set in stone. I want to be sure my holiday season is good. I need to feel out my employer about the reduced role, but if those two things go right, I'll take the chance.

 

David Bridburg

5 Years Ago

If Johnny can do that full time, anyone can. LOL

 

This discussion is closed.