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Sean McDunn

6 Years Ago

Transparency In Discussions

I haven't been in the discussions in a very long time, but Abbie keeps me up-to-date each week regarding important questions that get posted, bugs that get identified, etc.

Last week, we made a small change to our search engine, and like clockwork, the inevitable "sky is falling" post got started about how FAA is terrible... the change to the search engine is killing sales... FAA only cares about big sellers... FAA is lying to everyone... FAA is on the decline... FAA is turning in Walmart... etc.

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=4278552

Those sort of posts have occurred after every single website change going all the way back to 2006.

In the past, I used to come in and explain why we're doing what we're doing, but as you all know (as active forum participants), it's almost impossible to change anyone's opinion via a back-and-forth on the internet. The discussions always go nowhere. If you think that a change is bad for you for some reason, no amount of explaining will change your mind. Sales might go up by 20% this year on FAA, but if your sales go down by 10%, then FAA is terrible in your mind.

So - for years, instead of engaging in all sorts of discussions that went nowhere, I just let people continue to post inaccurate statements and wild theories that would go unchallenged. This weekend, however, as I read through some of the advice that was being dispensed here in the forum by certain artists and the statements that were being treated as fact, I started to feel bad for the artists who are here to learn.

When a "sky is falling" post gets started, there is a lot of bad information that gets thrown around as if it's fact, and that's got to be very discouraging and confusing to the artists who are here to learn.

So - we're going to do something about it.

In this post, I'm going to correct some of the wildly inaccurate statements that have been posted in the forum over the past few years and also discuss a new feature that we're releasing which will help you distinguish fact from fiction.

I've written every single line of code that runs this business... have access to every data point regarding every single sale... and am the person making every major decision from high-level strategic partnerships all the way down to graphic design changes on the homepage. After reading through everything below, if your reaction is to say that I don't know what I'm talking about, then there's nothing that I can do to convince you otherwise. That's just the nature of the internet. No one wants to change their mind.

So - here we go.

Transparency When Discussing Sales
--------------------------------------------------------------
There are 500,000+ artists on FAA, but only about 250 participate in the discussions. That is a very small subset of the overall artist population. Unfortunately, none of our Top 50 sellers participate here. That's unfortunate because many of the artists who are here in the forums each day are here seeking sales advice, and ideally, you want to seek advice from someone who is selling successfully on a regular basis.

In my opinion, one of the biggest problems with our discussion forum, in particular, occurs whenever discussions turn to the topic of "sales", and artists start giving advice to other artists.

There is no nice way to put this. There are a lot of artists in the discussion forum who don't make any sales on FAA. In the following discussion about the search engine, for example, there are a total of 20 artists currently participating:

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=4278552

Of those 20 artists, there are four who haven't made a single sale in 2018. That means that 20% of the participants who are expressing outrage that a minor change to the search engine has negatively affected their sales actually have no sales, at all, to affect.

Half of the 20 artists have made less than 10 sales, total, in 2018.

Abbie and I are the only two people who know that information because we can see the sales numbers. For everyone else participating in the discussion, it's very difficult to know what to think and whom to listen to.

To compound the issue, there are other artists who routinely dispense sales advice, advertise their own "how to sell art online" books, etc... and never generate any sales, at all, on FAA. I've mentioned this several times over the years. One artist who routinely dispenses advice has only made one sale since 2015.

There is nothing wrong with not selling. After all - many artists are here to learn how to sell. The big issue is when someone who isn't selling is telling you how to sell... or is getting you all worked up by telling you that his/her sales are plummeting when the sales were non-existent to begin with.

In order to address this issue - I've given Abbie the ability to flag certain discussions as "sales discussions". When she flags a discussion as a "sales discussion", our code is going to automatically show the "average monthly sales volume" beneath the headshot for every participant in the discussion.

Here's how the average monthly sales volume is calculated. Our code adds up the total number of items that you've sold in the past twelve months and then divides it by 12. The average will look something like this:

"8 Sales / Month"

It's not a financial disclosure (i.e. a dollar amount). It's just a count of how many products you sell, on average, in a given month. Note - it does not count products that you purchase for yourself.

If Abbie flags a discussion as a "sales discussion", the sales numbers will only be displayed for posts that occur after Abbie changes it to a sales discussion. Also - before you post, you'll see a big warning telling you that you're about to disclose your sales numbers so that you don't disclose the number by accident.

If you have any questions, let me or Abbie know.


Myths 2018
--------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I'm going to address a few of the statements that seem to get tossed around as facts in all of these "sky is falling" posts each year.


Myth #1: FAA doesn't promote our artists.
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you're reading this, you're probably an artist. As a result, you're on our artist e-mail list, and you get artist-related e-mails.

You don't get the buyer e-mails.

If you're on our buyer e-mail list, then you'll see that we're promoting individual artists, groups of artists, and themed collections all the time. Take a look at some of these buyer e-mails:

https://fineartamerica.com/newsletters/soosh-2018.html
https://fineartamerica.com/newsletters/curated-collections.html
https://fineartamerica.com/newsletters/maps-2018.html
https://fineartamerica.com/newsletters/modern-master-christian-jackson-2018.html
https://fineartamerica.com/newsletters/modern-master-aaron-blaise-2018.html
https://fineartamerica.com/newsletters/artist-profile-don-mennig.html
etc...

A new e-mail goes out to the buyers on our e-mail list two times every single week.

We pay to run ads for our featured artists on Facebook, Instagram, and Google.

We pay to load our products onto Amazon and get them featured there.

We hand-select artists to appear on our homepage:
https://fineartamerica.com/

We hand-select artists to appear in our curated collections:
https://fineartamerica.com/collectiongroups

We hand-select artists to appear on our Featured Artist pages:
https://fineartamerica.com/overview/artists

We publish comprehensive success stories about our featured artists:
https://fineartamerica.com/landing/soosh.html

We feature new artists on our social media accounts each day.

etc...

I've always let the myth that we "don't promote our artists" exist because it stops artists from constantly asking us to promote them. With 500,000+ artists, that's impossible. That's why we always tell you that you have to promote yourself - which is definitely true. However, if you think that we don't promote our best-sellers and heavily feature artists that we think are up-and-coming, that's crazy.

We're the largest art site in the world, and we advertise and promote like crazy.

You have to leave the confines of the discussion forum, contests, and groups, and when you do, you'll see that certain artists are heavily featured throughout the site. We're constantly adding new artists to the mix, as well.

If you want to become a featured artist, the easiest way to get on our radar is to A) generate some sales on your own... B) drive a lot of traffic to your images via your own newsletters and social media... C) get yourself mentioned in an art-related publication / blog... or D) be nice and helpful to other artists on the site.

A and B are self-explantory. If you generate some sales or traffic on FAA, we have algorithms in place that will immediately bring you to the attention of someone on our staff. Also - think of it this way. Every time you make a sale, someone at FAA has to, at the very least, review your images for quality, cropping, etc. You've immediately brought your image and your entire portfolio to our attention, and the person reviewing your image has the ability and the authority to promote your images throughout the site.

I wrote a very lengthy article about kickstarting your sales many, many, many years ago. Here it is:

https://fineartamerica.com/why-every-artist-and-photographer-in-the-world-should-be-selling-on-fineartamerica.html

I'm sure that a lot of links in the article are out-dated, but you get the idea.

The one thing that I can guarantee doesn't help you become a featured artist is constantly being a thorn in Abbie's side, causing trouble for her in the discussion forum, and complaining endlessly about how terrible and unfair the website is to you.

Every month, our staff works with a select group of new and existing artists to promote them both online and in the real world.

Here are two of the many artists that we worked with just last month, alone:

https://fineartamerica.com/videos.html?videotype=artMyWay

Our staff spent days getting to know both artists... interviewing them... taking them out to lunches... editing videos for Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube... coordinating social media posts... writing press releases... and ultimately paying to drive hundreds of thousands of viewers to the final videos on Facebook and Instagram.

Those sort of personal interactions happen between our staff and our featured artists all the time, and we chose to work with artists who have great artwork and are fun to work with.

Focus on A, B, C, and D, and maybe you'll be featured some day. There are absolutely no guarantees, and that's why we tell everyone that you have to promote yourself in order to be successful. However, if you generate some sales on your own or otherwise bring attention to your artwork through visitors or the media, we'll definitely notice. That's the way all online marketplaces work.


Myth #2: FAA doesn't advertise.
----------------------------------------------------------------
This one is always amusing whenever I see someone write it.

FAA spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on advertising each year. We advertise on Google, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and Amazon. Take a look at Google Shopping, for example, and search for "fineartamerica.com".

There are millions of FAA products loaded in there. Visit FAA in an "incognito mode" in your browser, and once you leave the site, you'll find yourself seeing FAA ads everywhere that you go online (e.g. on your favorite news site, on Facebook, on YouTube, on the blogs that you read, etc.).

What is "incognito mode"? It hides the cookies from your browser and makes you appear to FAA like a first-time visitor. We run re-targeting ads constantly to first-time visitors. Guess who we don't run ads to? Artists. Once you login to FAA as an artist, we drop a cookie in your browser which tells us that you're an artist, and then you'll almost never see an FAA ad anywhere online. It's a waste of money to run ads at artists when we should be spending our money going after buyers.


Myth #3: The sky is falling.
----------------------------------------------------------------
As an individual artist, your sales are going to fluctuate from month-to-month. As the owner of the company, I can see the sales numbers for every single artist on the site, and I have 12 years worth of sales data at my fingertips. Sales go up and down for individual artists. That's just the nature of the business. You might earn $2,500 one month and then $100 the next. It happens to our best sellers, and it happens to our newest, smallest sellers.

If you're actively marketing yourself, the fluctuations will be smaller, but they'll still be there. One month, one of our wholesale buyers might purchase 10 large prints from you for use in a hotel project, and then the next month, they'll buy zero.

That's going to create a big fluctuation in your sales, and that's completely normal.

When your sales fluctuate, the sky isn't falling.

Too often, a few artists will post in the discussion forum that they had a down month, and all of the sudden, the sky is falling for everyone. It's not.

FAA has been growing non-stop for 12 straight years. We're the largest online art site in the world. We're powering the online sales for 500,000+ independent artists and an ever-expanding list of global brands.

If you want to read about the current state of FAA and the print-on-demand industry, in general, take a look at this article:

https://medium.com/@broihier/lessons-from-a-decade-in-e-commerce-bootstrapping-the-worlds-largest-art-site-6c51d42d117d


Summary
----------------------------------------------------------------
My biggest advice is to spend more time focusing on what you can control (e.g. creating incredible artwork, building your online following, building your e-mail list, developing a marketing strategy, collaborating with other artists and brands, building relationships with local art galleries, paying for online ads, etc.) and less time on what you can't (e.g. the FAA search engine, the FAA homepage, the FAA collections, the FAA newsletters, etc.)

If your sales strategy is to upload images to FAA and then sit back and wait for sales to come in, you'll never be happy. I must have written that sentence at least 50 times over the years. If you're in the business of selling art, then you have to treat it like a business and do all of the things that I mentioned, above. You can't just sit back and wait for sales to roll in.

You've probably heard me use the following analogy many times before:

Let's say that you're a musician and that you upload your songs to Apple Music. After a few months with very few sales / streams, you mention to all of your friends that you're not earning any money as a musician, and the reason you're not earning any money is because Apple Music isn't featuring your songs.

Your friends will look at you like you're crazy. They'll ask you if you're playing bars, restaurants, and open mic nights in order to promote yourself and build some buzz. They'll ask you if you're going out on tour to play small festivals. They'll ask you if you've reached out to radio stations and promoters to try to get your songs promoted. They'll ask you if you've reached out to Apple Music, directly, to try to get in touch with their playlist curators.

Everyone knows that music is a business and that musicians need to hustle in order to get their music heard. Musicians know that, and their friends know that. If you just create songs and upload them, it's almost guaranteed that you won't be successful.

It's no different with art. Selling art is a business. You've taken the first step by adding your art to the world's largest marketplace. The next step is to stand out from the crowd, and that takes a lot of hard work. If you do manage to stand out from the crowd... and you're the type of person that people want to work with... then lots of doors will open up for you.

Reply Order

Post Reply
 

Good info. Thanks Sean.

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

Thank you! The Sales Discussion idea will be really helpful. I only wish it was retroactive!

 

Bill Swartwout

6 Years Ago

Excellent.Thank you.

 

Gill Billington

6 Years Ago

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this Sean and thank you for still allowing us to have a forum despite the negative posts.

I have leaned so much from people who have posted here, I am so glad that I found this site 5 years ago.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

that sales thing should be interesting. what i would love to see -a useful member check box. if someone helps others, there should be a check box. and that member would have something under their avatar that shows how useful or helpful someone is. it would only be a check going up. and each time someone thinks your answer is useful, then you would get higher up.

i suppose if there were a reward system for those helping other members, features, higher rankings etc, that would be nice. i think it would make the forum an even nicer place and encourage people to give good advice.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Hans Zimmer

6 Years Ago

Thank you for your time and all the explainations, Sean. Very appreciated! :o)

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

"helpful" is subjective. Sales results are not. I'd rather have facts than a popularity contest, and that's what a reward system would become.

 

Agreed, Cynthia. We have some people that come in and may only help once, but that help is worth a lot to the one helped

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

it would be accumulative, available to anyone that wants to check it off. i thought of a down button too, but that would be abused.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Patricia Strand

6 Years Ago

Brilliant, and thank you, Sean!!

Mike, you are the most helpful of anyone here, so I can see where you're coming from. However, I agree with Cynthia.

 

Michalakis Ppalis

6 Years Ago

Good Info. Thank you

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

never hurts to try to get higher, or to cash in on the help or something.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

F A Print Shop

6 Years Ago

Sean,

Thanks for openly discussing things.

I have often said, I have very few sales, but.....here is my thinking. It is openly known I am not selling well. I am possibly the only person with few sales to state that. I also expect ideas from any of us to get knocked down form time to time when better ideas are offered.

If you do an average on me for 2018.... you are at 0.125 per month.

Straight forward ideas and a decent attitude matter more.

David Bridburg - My Artwork

 

A big THANK YOU to Sean for all of the work you do to build and promote this site! We are incredibly happy, no THRILLED, to be part of the Fine Art America/Pixels family!
This is no lie and no exaggeration to say that our art careers started right here and blossomed right here because of the FAA site. When we became members, it took just a couple of years before we were actually making a LIVING on our art sales here and with the licensing deals that came our way because of Fine Art America.

Yes, we have been blessed and it has always been my Debra-ism to say, We are not lucky, We are blessed. But as Sean has said in his very informative article here, you have to work to bring your art to the next level. It simply does not just fall in your lap. And we do work hard, creating new and interesting top quality work every single day and promoting it out in the real world to bring folks into our site. It has to be a passion for you the artist and it is with us.

So again, THANK YOU to Sean and to Abbie and the rest of the FAA/Pixels staff for creating, marketing, building, and keeping this top art site going!
Now, I have to get back to creating some great art!
Much success everyone and keep celebrating life,
Debra (and Dave)
www.CelebrateLifeGallery.com

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i might have missed it, but is the total going to be a grand total for all the years we have been here? otherwise it will reset at the start of the year, and it would be zero for all.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Lindley Johnson

6 Years Ago

Very interesting, Sean - thank you.

 

Jim Whalen

6 Years Ago

Sean, thanks for being so frank with us, it's appreciated!

 

Phyllis Beiser

6 Years Ago

I join in with the hallelujah chorus here and say thanks Sean for the in depth explanations!!! And thanks for having Abbie's back!

 

Sharon Mau

6 Years Ago

Aloha Sean . . it's so good to hear from you at last . . .
Good to know you're doing well . .

Thank you so much for such an informative update!

Mahalo . . .

Sharon

 

Design Turnpike

6 Years Ago

Shoot, hoped I was approaching Top 50. Well, there's the next goal to shoot for!

 

Lara Ellis

6 Years Ago

Thank you for the info, very helpful. I'll continue to try and plug my work wherever I can as I always have. :) I'm certainly not a rock star artist but I do get some sales and I'm certain that it's because I try to share my work whenever and wherever I can. It's nice to have a website and a place to print everything for me too! You have certainly made it easy for artists to turn their images into beautiful prints and products with this site! Thank you for all you do behind the scenes to keep it up and running and for providing this website in the first place!

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

Yeah, seeing the sales in those discussions are depressing. I'll just say it now. I've yet to make a sale this year. I won't participate in sales discussions even if it's to suggest that someone work on their keywords and descriptions which even as an almost non saler, I know to be a wise move.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i'd like to have a higher number, but the average makes it seems better some how. because i've had some terrible time getting sales this summer. but the average makes it seem better.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Carol Groenen

6 Years Ago

Always happy to hear from you, Sean, and to learn of the "bigger picture" when it comes to Fine Art America. Thank you!

 

Rick Berk

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean, the explanations are much appreciated!

 

Mo Barton

6 Years Ago

Interesting and useful info thank you Sean. I have seen lots of helpful ideas here on the Forum and usually manage to ignore the more negative posts.
I think it’s human nature to moan. I’m a teacher in the real world and get a group of us together and we do often indulge in far too much complaining!
We beed more of discussions like those started today to help with photography and digital art. Some posters are so generous with their time in helping the rest of us.
Thanks again :)

 

Darice Machel McGuire

6 Years Ago

Aloha Sean, so good to see you. Thank you for this valuable information.

 

Carolyn Marshall

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean, I really appreciate the information. I do have a question (not a complaint). I've been here since 2011. Something that gets talked about a lot in the discussions is that many of us do not get any newsletters or news about what is going on. You mentioned above two different types of emails, artist related and buyer related. Email services can be very persnickety, to say the least, and filter out a lot of mail as spam when it actually isn't. It's happened to a lot of us. Abbie has suggested to us several times to change to a Gmail account and that should remedy the problem. The entire time I've been with FAA, I have only received sales notifications, discussion posts (when I am following), internal emails and that was all. Abbie had me cancel out of receiving updates and change my email once before. But that didn't work, and I still didn't get any notification other than what I just listed. She just tried to help me again a few days ago (thank you, Abbie!). I went to every place I saw a link to sign up for the newsletter and put my Gmail address. Then I reset my notification to receive updates. I FINALLY got the latest email about the free shipping that just ran a day ago. But I believe that was a "Buyer" email, is that correct? I looked at the buyer links you have listed above. My husband has his email here as a buyer and didn't receive any of them.

So, I said all that to ask this, shouldn't I (we) be getting some kind of "artist" email when FAA runs a free shipping or other campaign so that we can also promote it for ourselves? Shouldn't we get some sort of email, somewhere along the line (either through internal email here or personal email)? I think that is one of the top complaints that makes a lot of artists feel that we don't know what's going on until it happens, and then it's too late to be prepared to deal with it effectively and let our customers know in some cases.

No, I'm not a top seller. But, overall, I am very happy with FAA, and recognize that I need to do more external promoting.

 

Welcome back to the forum Sean!
I've missed you, and never have doubted your commitment to your company and all the artists here.
FAA was my intro to selling online and the forum has provided so much free advise. Valuable info in these forums!
Keep up the great work Sean, and visit us more often :)

 

Lois Bryan

6 Years Ago

"If you're in the business of selling art, then you have to treat it like a business"

Amen!!!

I consider my artist website and FAA my storefronts. It's up to me to drag folks in there (hopefully not kicking and screaming) ...

: ))

 

Roy Erickson

6 Years Ago

I think we needed that - Thank you for your time and explanations. I am not displeased with FAA - although I often hark back to the days when I first joined. If we worked as hard at promoting ourselves as you do in trying to improve our site - we'd be surprised at how well we'd do.

 

Catherine Avilez

6 Years Ago

Much needed information for this newbie. Thank you very much.

 

Jolanta Anna Karolska

6 Years Ago

Brilliant information...thank you so much for the update, Sean :)

 

Adam Romanowicz

6 Years Ago

Thanks for the reminders... It's easy to get wrapped up in the emotion, and no one likes their cheese moved. The last few threads have been enlightening. I also love the new sales transparency, as I've often wondered what other posters sales numbers are.

Now, back to lurking... :)

 

Adam Jewell

6 Years Ago

The sales numbers by the posts is a great idea. Could we just ban entirely posts promoting their sales ebooks and things like that in the forums? Especially if their sales are zero or a shade above.

It’s nice to see you post sometimes with a state of the industry/FAA and hear what’s going on that may not be noticed.

 

Robert Woodward

6 Years Ago

Thanks, Sean, for the very useful information. And for the links.

 

Rose Santuci-Sofranko

6 Years Ago

Sean, if your plan is to humility those of us who don't make many sales, but simply want to post a question in a "sales thread", then you're off to a good start! Conversely if you want to make some of those who sell a lot (and brag about it) even more pompous then they already may be, then you're off to a good start there also.

 

Gordon James

6 Years Ago

Fantastic. It has really helped me understand the logistics of the business. Can't wait to get started.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i like it and don't like it. its sort of a self shaming.
now when i post, it verify's to all the new people to start copying even more of my work. that's really the downside to the idea. i would rather see a colored dot that represents something or nothing at all. its like finding out what your coworker makes.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Steve Harrington

6 Years Ago

Thank you for the perspective, Sean. I like the new sales numbers idea for select discussions. And your reminder that we all have slump months has brightened my current situation. :)

 

Rose. It is nothing like that at all. People asking for help are saying already they have no sales. But many people are giving very bad advice to those people and they also have no sales. This will allow new people asking for help to make informed judgements over who to listen to.

That is all. If people do not want to show sales, they do not speak in those threads and nobody will be any the wiser. Nobody is showing anything unless they have agreed to in those threads.

 

Rose Santuci-Sofranko

6 Years Ago

I understand that that is the reasoning....but it will surely keep me from asking anything in those threads. I can only imagine how newer people, or even long time members (like me) from wanting to say anything in them. Just stating my thoughts on this.

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

I'm with Rose. Not that my advice is worth anything anyway apparently. I was already down about my (lack of) sales this year. I don't want them broadcast to the forum just because I choose to participate.

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

Everyone starts somewhere. There's no virtue in sales - it doesn't make someone a better artist or person - it just means that whatever they're doing is WORKING. Rose, you should take any form of shame out of the equation. We're all always growing. Would you take waterskiing advice from someone who has never tried it? Probably not. This is the same thing.

When I started here I would have loved to see who was selling - it's a ton of good info right there. It's a good idea to emulate someone successful if you want to be successful. Being intimidated helps no one, it just holds you back. There will always be someone who sells more than you, and there will always be people who sell the same or less. I really want to encourage anyone who feels shame to reconsider that attitude as maybe being part of the problem, and see that it's not conducive to growth on any level.

It's not a competition. I would LOVE to be where one of the big sellers is but the fact that my numbers are small compared to Design Turnpike's or the Vaanderlans doesn't mean I will avoid asking them questions - exactly the opposite, actually. I am likely to seek them out and get a lot out of hearing what they have to say. Some people have the time and ability to put a ton of effort into marketing. Some people don't. Some people have huge established followings, some are building them. There's no status or shame in any of that.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

"Here's how the average monthly sales volume is calculated. Our code adds up the total number of items that you've sold in the past twelve months and then divides it by 12. The average will look something like this:

"8 Sales / Month

I am split 50/50 on this. I can see Rose is saying but on the other hand, as everyone well knows, I am constantly getting in trouble and being accused of showing disrespect to people that are telling others what to do and how to do it when they have no experience or background to do so or are in other threads complaining about not getting it done themselves.

I personally would like to see Sean come up with a number based on the data of average sales per month is and anyone that has lest then that is eliminated from those threads tagged as sales threads.

I can also see a number based on median sales number vs averages or actuals. I would set the number at 40%. So if you are not in the top 40% of the median sellers, you are not going get your posts seen. This would give us even an even better quality advice, imho.

That way you know that the advice you are seeing is coming from people that are better than most at getting things sold it would also take personality contests out of the picture.



 

It is up to people whether they talk in them or not. A VERY clear message comes up telling them exactly what will happen if they do.

Now you have to allow people to be able to decide for themselves if they will then click to continue speaking or not. It's their decision. Not ours and not yours. (Not to anyone in particular)

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

Floyd, all due respect, that's ridiculous. Everyone should be able to participate, because everyone can learn and improve. It's just helpful to know who you might want to listen to with both ears, if you will.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Some people consider their sales numbers proprietary business information that is not shared except on a need to know bases.

I have operated that way for over 40 years on the advice of both my accountants and attornies.

 

VIVA ANDERSON

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean.


note: 0 sales, fyi. I don't promote, am handicapped about being at the computer too much,am here to be among artists, who sell or not, for
the 'community' of it all. Now I know 'my place', and will certainly think twice about posting to this forum......though I have never given
advice, I have been vocal about my opinions, because this is a Discussion Forum, for that purpose. With an '0' rating now, I guess my
opinions will matter very little. That's ok. "FAA is not a democracy"....often said, understood.

 

Floyd...then do not post when it tells you it's a sales thread. It's very simple really. You cannot show anything if you take heed when the warning comes up

It won't show in other threads
It won't show anything for people prior to me hitting the SALES THREAD switch

ONLY if you post after being warned. In that one thread

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

Floyd, there's no context. A person with 5 sales a month could have sold 5 notebooks at a 50 cent profit or 5 huge framed canvases with fancy gold frames. The number of sales per month isn't really valuable on any level except to show that you have sold items.

 

Vivian you've just shown you did not read, or perhaps understand, the top post at all. Please take more time to go through it as nobody is stopping you or showing your sales. At all.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago


"It's just helpful to know who you might want to listen to with both ears, if you will."

Yup, and what better way to do it then to have, Sean, the guy with all the data and information, give us a list of "preferred" sources that are worth listening to and not having to wade through tons of less qualified advice.

 

Take a look at the thread Sean linked

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=4278552

Now before he hit the switch, look at the members posts.
No mention of sales
He turned on sales thread in that thread
AFTER he did people were warned it would show their sales.....scroll down as if you're going to post to see
They all knew the sales would show

No, we're not going to only allow certain people to post in them.

 

SharaLee Art

6 Years Ago

I actually like the idea of showing the average sales per year on the sales threads. Some take the advice of those who claim to be making XX amount of sales per month as gold. This will either show that they do know what they're talking about, or not. I don't think Sean was wanting to humiliate those with few or no sales, but to call out those who claim to make numerous sales per month when they don't.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Abbie, the link goes to the main discussion page, not a particular thread.

 

Natalie Holland

6 Years Ago

Thank you for the informative update, Sean.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i still want to know what happens on jan 2019 - do we all reset back to zero again? or will this be a running total from the very start?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

"Our code adds up the total number of items that you've sold in the past twelve months and then divides it by 12"

That does not look like a reset to me, Mike... but no way of knowing.

 

Showing who is selling what will only involve what is sold on FAA. There are other venues that folks do sell on that would not be represented. However, the bottom line is doing those things that make for sales opportunities. Being involved in the forum and groups of networking artists is a good thing. However... the real rubber meets the road by getting in front of the customer. That is where things get interesting. I would venture to say that many do not like to get out of the comfort zone.... and to the place that must be gone to.

Many thanks for the reminders of what must be done Sean. It is pretty easy to become unfocused and lose track of the red ball.

 

Rose Santuci-Sofranko

6 Years Ago

Personally I'd rather see how many years somebody has been here and their total # of sales....

I've made 74 sales since I've been here....but the way the formula is figured out it shows 1 sale per month....even tho in some months I made multiple sales. Less embarrassing to see the X# of years and total sales....and serves the same purpose. Just my 2 cents.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

if he divides by 12, it sounds like it goes back to zero until you earned more. i don't recall seeing (Though i could have missed it too), if each year is averaged together.

the only thing i see here is - if you sold a number of cards for the lowest amount, your number could look high, compared to someone that made 10 sales, but $1000 for each one. like knowing how many prints were sold, might be a better number, than small cheap cards.

and others have off years. i know my sales seem to be getting less each year. nothing i did that would have changed that, seems just like the season or something. yet the advice is still good for the most part.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mike, you will find out how it works if you keep participating.

Thank you.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i suppose i will....


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

It goes to a thread, Floyd. It's very easy to change FAA for pixels. https://pixels.com/showmessages.php?messageid=4278552

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

Duplicate. My bad

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

Funny thing is that in my time here, I've been able to make up my own mind about whose advice I take and whose I don't. Some I know to listen to all the time, while others I do not agree with but half the time. All without having their sales shoved down my throat. I suppose now there will be a hierarchy to the forums more than there already is. I think this is a monumentally bad idea. And, yeah, I know. I don't have to participate in those threads. Got it.

 

Tikvah's Hope

6 Years Ago

We have had some good, fair, and bad years, or months in sales. Which is really only relevant for us. Not as a comparison against others. In the last few years, we have been locally mobile, via motorhome. Limited Wifi, ie hotspot. And the ability to get out to take our photos due to health, accessibility to trails via mobility scooters etc. We do what we can, when we can. And our promoting of ourselves is random and not always consistent due to some factors. In all this I, we do not complain. I am thankful and am blessed beyond measure, whenever we make a sale, small or big, few or many. I know that our self promoting is a key factor even if it is not consistent.

Thank you Sean, for having the best platform around. Changes come and go. Always try to be adaptable.
P/S Hardley participate in the discussions.

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

Are sales discussion going to be private? I may have missed it if that was told.

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

Rose, that wouldn't necessarily be helpful either. I actually look like I have been here since 2011, but I was actually not here for two or three of those years.

I think every bit of this is awesome. It is frustrating to see people trashing FAA all the time. Maybe this will cut back on some of the complaints once it becomes obvious they have been misplaced. I'm not talking about justifiable problems with products should they arise, I'm talking about people blaming FAA entirely for their lack of sales.

So, the best practice is to draw FAA's attention to ourselves, eh? I'm going to have to get neked again aren't I? Oh, okaaaaay...

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

Of course my first double post ever happens when I no longer have the tools to delete it. :P

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

I miss my blue :(

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

is it a rolling 12 months? instead of it resetting, it counts 12 months back from today? so the number will always be fluctuating by a lot? is that how its going to work?


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

SharaLee Art

6 Years Ago

Mike, I'm pretty sure the formula is not considering calendar years. It's taking the sales for the past 12 months and dividing them by twelve, so yes, a rolling 12 months. Once we hit January '19, it will take Jan - Dec of '18 and divide by 12. In March '19, it will take sales from May of '18 thru Feb of '19.

 

SharaLee Art

6 Years Ago

And I'm assuming it will be sales based on months, not days. Sean wouldn't have the sales data for the current month, Sep, yet so he's basing the sales through the end of this August.

 

Kathleen K Parker

6 Years Ago

Informative and helpful article. Thank you very much, Sean.

 

Laurie Search

6 Years Ago

Thank you for all that you do!! I've loved FAA since I joined back in 2011!! :)))

 

James McCormack

6 Years Ago

Much appreciated Sean, thank you sir!

 

Dale Kincaid

6 Years Ago

Sean - I don’t post often, but peruse the forums daily. Here’s a huge thank you for all you have done on this site. To me, every change has been for the good and I appreciate what you have written. I’m proud to send visitors to FAA and my site. And I promote the site to many of my artist friends, some of which have joined and making sales.

Most of all, I would like to thank you for the inspiration above.

 

Uther Pendraggin

6 Years Ago

Huh, what do ya know?

What have you people been doing since I've been gone?

Hey Sean, wanna buy a picture?

;-)

PLAU
UPD


ABC= Always Be Closing

 

Teru Yamagishi

6 Years Ago

Well, it is nice article to read. But too lengthy! And many new comers want to get the answer about a single question as " how to get the artworks uploaded correctly? why uploaded images disappear, even right after uploaded?" which should be the most important subjects to them. I wanted to get response regarding this matters, however web page says, "Discussion closed." It is the most important question for new comers, and I don't understand why this question won't be responded? I just read another lady questioned regarding this matter.

Teru Yamagishi

 

Frank J Casella

6 Years Ago

Dear Sean (not Abbie),

Greetings from your hometown of Chicagoland.

Welcome back to the forum. It’s always good to hear from you, and I consider it a privilege because of how hands-on you are and how much you care, as well as experiencing this place in the lifetime of the founder, as you never know what tomorrow brings. I don’t take ANY of this for granted, because I was raised in a family business. it's HARD work.


I think it’s Good that you always try new things and then decide to keep it or trash it. Because of this, I believe, everything you touch turns to gold. It is through our failures that we begin again more intelligently.

With that said, I have to say I agree with most of what you said in your OP. The sales quota on the members post gives me concern however. I get it, you want people with sales experience to be most trusted with giving advice. Seriously, I believe this will threaten the community aspect of the forum if not the website.

Before I mention some solutions, I would like to let the new people know that even though I’m not on the forum threads as much, I did spend a few years as the groups mod, met some wonderful artists and got a true feel for and ‘big picture’ on how things go around here. I'm more often on the treads in my groups however.

When it comes to sales threads here, about six months ago I started to just pass them by. Because I have found that what works for one artist usually won’t work for another. Plus many, not all, giving advice would say something like “you should do this”. Instead of saying ‘this is what works for me’. So I decided to go and get advice from the people who are in the business of giving it. These people can really tell you, as they have with me, how you compare to other artists and how to make a big difference. They know the questions to ask.

More on this in a moment. But first, solutions:

Sean, you mentioned how the artists who are top sellers don’t come around this forum much. You also mentioned some time ago how many of the top sellers / artist earn $10k + a month through FAA.

So my question is, why are you not inviting them to spend an HOUR with us? In other words, once a month announce a new artist sales discussion, have us post questions, and let us know when the ‘celebrity’ artist will answer those questions.

The one thing I have observed about them is each of them are a category of one. As Seth Godin describes: Freelancers https://art19.com/shows/akimbo/episodes/d2dfae11-26cd-4c67-86d1-b1c0c24bf3bb

You might have to pay them. You would know more than I, but, I would think if you invest more into helping more artists to become $10k + sellers every month, you might not have to invest as much in advertising. I personally ONLY want to learn from these people. Life is short. You don’t know what tomorrow brings.


Also, you have two ‘resident’ artist coaches who post their articles in our weekly FAA newsletter. Maybe one morning month, can you ask, for example, Barney Davey to be here to answer our questions about art marketing. Likewise, have you thought about moving their weekly articles on to the main forum and then, once again, inviting them to answer questions? I’m sure it will bring them more business and help us artists bring FAA more business. Yes?

Why do I suggest these as solutions? Because, the company I buy my dogs food from has a nutrition veterinarian as an independent contractor to post on their forum, and makes regular blog posts to answer questions. So why not 'steal' that concept and bring it here?


You see, the question I’m asking myself with your quota idea is, what part of the FAA slogan - ‘Independent. Together.’ - is the sales quota idea about FAA Family or FAA Community?

Because of all your hard work on the site as you mentioned, and Abbie and the Mods on the forum, we have a fabulous experience here and a wonderful community in comparison. Everybody follows the same rules or they are talked to. The quote idea, in my mind, separates this Ideal.

For example, when my son was in a youth basketball school and the coach put the boy’s through a drill to see who could make the most baskets, my wife an I immediately pulled him out of that school. We then put him in the school where the coach did drills based on what TEAM could make the most baskets … because coach wanted to make a star team, not a star player. This develops respecting each other. Independent - Together.

“Success is not counted by how high you have climbed, but by how many people you brought with you.” — Zig Ziglar


I’m already seeing on this thread how the 'numbers' for the quota idea are confusing or intimidating. So, like you often do, try out your idea here and in due time you may see what I’m talking about. I hope not. You might be right.


I also have a few more ideas in my back pocket like this. So next time you come back home let me know if you’d like to meet over coffee ( though I understand you don’t drink it? ).


Thank you in advance for your 'ear' Sean!! Very much!!

Frank



 

Rick Berk

6 Years Ago

Excellent ideas, Frank.

 

Mariola Bitner

6 Years Ago

Fantastic information!!! Thank you Sean!!!

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

What? Sean doesn't drink coffee?? UNACCEPTABLE.

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire
Hellooooo? The Elixir of Life. Absolutely unacceptable.

 

J L Meadows

6 Years Ago

I don't understand any of this.

What is an email list? Something you use to spam people's mailboxes with? I don't like it when that happens to me. As for social media, I use Twitter sometimes, but Twitter has become so virulently political that I hate going there now. And Pinterest? I have a couple of boards there, but I don't think they've ever led to any sales. I'm not being negative, just truthful.

 

Linda Woods

6 Years Ago

First, I just want to say I love FAA. It is the only POD site I use and I have absolute faith in every decision Sean makes. Part of being successful in business is experimenting, expanding, and trying new things to see what works...and clearly that is what he is doing. Thank you, Sean.

Second, I'm coming out of lurker mode to address the issue of why some of the artists who sell a bit more than others do not spend a lot of time in the forums.
1. We are busy working our butts off to make those sales. There is not a lot of time to hang out here in the forums when we also have to interact with buyers and clients on other social media platforms, set up marketing plans, and of course- make art!
2. Advice is often met with defensiveness and hostility and nobody has time for that. I get emails every day from artists on FAA asking my advice. I happily direct people to blog posts I have written about selling online (I have been selling online since 2000), I answer questions, I say what works for me. More often than not, most people do not even bother to respond with a thank you or they respond angrily with why everything I said would not apply to them. I love all things art and I am passionate about marketing and supporting other artists....when they are nice.

So....if there is an artist you admire or you see them selling regularly and you want their advice, just be nice! Be open minded, be nice, and be prepared to do the work.



 

Pamela Patch

6 Years Ago

well at this point I guess I just want it known that I read the post, that I am still here for now.

 

Roger Swezey

6 Years Ago

Sean,

I consider myself as one of those "Tree Hugging Weirdos" mentioned on your promotional video

I came to this site relying on selling originals here on FAA...At that time (2009) I was not only welcomed to do so, but encouraged

As far as POD...I've done more "reversed" POD Sales....Buying far more wonderful prints by many of the fantastic artists here, than selling my own POD images.


So I feel comfortable in having my own thoughts, and feel free to state them when I think it's appropriate.


Now regarding "Marketeering" ( I prefer that form of the word)

Sean, please take a look at that aforementioned video

It seems apparent to me, that FAA promises to take care of all the business tasks we all hate...and that includes "marketering"

I'm sure that is not what you meant to say.


For now I let it go at that

 

Suzanne Powers

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean for your input! I believe making your post a sticky is very effective and reminds us all to think more before commenting if only for the fact our sales are known on the other side! It makes me more cautious in general and I didn't comment. I do agree with Frank making sales stats public could inhibit information flow. Making this post a permanent sticky could help us to think before reacting. I like the idea of voting up or down on comments to curb the rumor mills or ideas that are not based on all the facts. Voting used as a type of checks and balances can keep an individual from going on ad nauseam, infecting newbies with irrelevant, incomplete or false information. When these situations occur I think about the newbie who is unaware of how things work and despair to see them have to try to wade through these posts that appear to the uninitiated true for every situation. As for me I can just skip those threads but it frustrates me for someone new to not be able to get the best start because of unbalanced opinions. I'm not implying the Mods are not effective. I'm not sure they can be expected to know everything about this business to correct all posts although they do many times interject with facts that set the thread on a surer course.

 

Hi again all

Sales average will NOT show on every post

Sales average will only show on the post you have agreed it will when you click the big 'continue' button, and from then on, in that one thread only

Please go to the post linked above. Scroll down as if to post. If you click to continue after reading that message only then will the average show.

It will not show in any other thread
It will not show for previous posters in that thread unless they too clicked 'continue'

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

I feel like I'm being ignored. I can't find if this has been answered. Are sales discussions going to all be made private?

 

Retired Account

6 Years Ago

Whingers, whiners and profits of doom are everywhere on the web. I prefer a more positive outlook.

Having been here on and off for ten years (many temporary accounts), I have made the occasional sale, but it has never been the priority. FAA is a convenient and useful venue for my transient collection of outcomes. If we stop changing we die.

Carry on inovating Sean.

Everything is transient.

Dave
REVAD.COM

PS. Not aimed at anyone or any post here. Just my experience of social media in general.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i do see the method backfiring though. i know i had very slow months which will affect the total. if i bought my own work as a different person (new account), it would count as a sale. yet any advice i gave would still be false, because i'm buying up my own work. but the system will see it as a new person buying it. and they can still give a false narrative. mostly i don't like the fluctuation as it changes each month.

should i be ignored if my number drops?

i don't know where half my sales even come from, many come from faa - does that mean i'm good at what i do or bad? we get no stats - can we have basic stats on the FAA side? because at least then we can prove to ourselves that the method we are using works. i would love to have at least- analytics for faa, maybe mixed with the other one or something internal. show us where they came from, when and what words they searched for - from google, internal and internal on our site. thanks


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

the other thing i don't get is -- why did you remove sponsors? i think that effects sales a lot as well, especially for newer people. its hard to know where i went wrong in why sales might have slowed down, if features are changed drastically on the site. can we bring back sponsors, and maybe add another line or two. yeah there might be a spammer, but as you set it up, it would change the artist each time, so it hardly matters.

another thing is the email list - since you hid the bio on the about screen, and hid the buttons - i don't get anyone signing up for that mail list any more. while i never used it much, because everyone rejects our mail, i don't get sign ups any more. people can't find the button, and there is no reason to click on it. before they read it in the bio that was easy to find.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

I actually have sales over the last 12 months that are not showing in the average. They're from 2017

 

Frank J Casella

6 Years Ago

"I get emails every day from artists on FAA asking my advice. I happily direct people to blog posts I have written about selling online (I have been selling online since 2000), I answer questions, I say what works for me."

I was going to mention you, among others, Linda in my post above, but wasin't sure if you wanted all these people at once on your blog, etc. So I'm glad you came here and mentioned this. But, as usual, you humbly didn't share the link with your fabulous free advice, and the wonderful artist and person that you are.

http://visualchronicles.typepad.com/visual_chronicles/page/2/


EDIT: Remember what Linda said everyone, "if there is an artist you admire or you see them selling regularly and you want their advice, just be nice! Be open minded, be nice, and be prepared to do the work. "

Personally, I suggest you post your questions on her blog so we all can learn together.

 

David Smith

6 Years Ago

I think showing sales figures will be intimidating for almost everyone.

A better idea might be something like a star rating.

Probably have to do 10 stars to get any kind of differentiation and keep members like Conde Nast out of the calculations to keep them from skewing the curve.

 

Mike Daniels

6 Years Ago

This is good informative information, I like it. It is so true about musicians, I’m one of them and like it says if you don’t put your work out there your not going to be recognized, that’s all types of creative work. It’s a hit an miss, if one buys that’s a plus, if not then it is what it is, we have to make the best of it being artists.

 

Many thanks for all the suggestions. This is what is happening right now. Read Sean's post.

Sales threads will be made private if they warrant it, as in the past. As always it depends on each post on the it's own merits. Again, each member can make a choice whether they speak in that one thread. It's not crossing over into any other.

 

Steven Ralser

6 Years Ago

How am many of those top sellers are individual artists? Does it include the likes of Conde Nast etc.?

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

I get that we get to decide whether to participate in sales threads. That point has been made about 20 times, it seems. It seems odd that anyone can come in and see sales when it's not made private. I agree with David Smith that it could be intimidating. In a way, I don't know why sales is a good indicator of, well, anything. One poster has fewer sales than I imagined they would have, but he still gives good advice. And since the top sellers never come in here according to y'all, what does sales numbers tell us? The best seller in the forums might be in the 30 percentile otherwise, but since they have the most in the forums, we give them more credence than maybe they deserve under your new rules of posting sales.

 

JC Findley

6 Years Ago

The sales average is on a rolling 12 months so if you posted today it would show the average sales per month since September 5th 2017. As with most things I simply did a test and verified the results.

Sales per month doesn't pertain to revenue per month but it does a decent job in showing the poster's credibility in making sales. I notice even in a thread posted by the owner to try and assuage the complaints and fear is causing almost as many and as much within that thread itself. As the guy that started the "Sky is falling" thread that is linked here in the first place all I really wanted was some words from the top as to why. Personally I am more than happy with the reasoning given and will push forward as I always do. I am not an everything is bad kind of guy anyway and usually just roll with the changes but couldn't see the bigger picture on this one. All I wanted was to be given a glimpse at that picture.

Whether this will be good or bad for my personal sales techniques will be revealed over time but I am personally a lot happier with it than before.

 

JC Findley

6 Years Ago

The top 50 sellers are in the .01 percentile of sellers. That doesn't mean someone like Design Turnpike is not in the top 1% and I would imagine he is.

 

Bonfire Photography

6 Years Ago

A person who sells less than 12 a year would be 1 so if one sold less than 6 it will be 0 but is not accurate. I think a better way would be total over 12 months as a big fat goose egg will prevent me from offering any advice inthe future as there is more avenue to sell art than FAA alone. Because I don't sell much here does not mean I have other methods of selling images that work for me.

The person that sells originals only would also be discredited by having a 0 next to them even though they may have some sage advice to offer.

But if I have a zero next to my avatar you discredit me as having nothing to offer at all even though I have sold here. Does This make sense?

 

Kathy Anselmo

6 Years Ago

The career field of Marketing and the career field of Making Incredible Art are two entirely separate things. I need to keep striving to learn both much better, I don't automatically assume that I know allot about either. It's best to stay humble. I research some of the top selling artists here and the fact is they put in a super-human effort, are serious artists, educated, plus have great art. I feel fortunate to have sold anything here, because I haven't done any real marketing. (In fact I have no idea how many things I've sold) If the site pays for itself I'm happy, because then it's free. The only thing I've done is make a nicely designed "4x6" glossy card and do direct marketing (but very little). $30 per year to have a great service like this is a dream come true. I'm confident I can generate more sales; I just need to make an effort... however, I'm admittedly lazy. My best venue is eBay where I sell digitally restored rare antique prints and make custom prints on my Epson 4880 pro... some weeks are great, while others are zero, but its great fun.

Thank you Sean for this incredible web site, you have no idea how awesome this is for people like me! I have a love affair with art; this venue gives an amazing breadth of creative people and awesome art. It's the coolest virtual art gallery in the world! I love art and I love art culture... art is one of the only thing that truly connects all of humanity... and remember: artists always have the last say.

 

Robert Yaeger

6 Years Ago

Hi Sean,
Thank you for posting your comments and initiating this discussion thread.
I enjoy being able to offer my images through FAA. I like the options that FAA provides, which enable me to maintain a professional looking website. I especially enjoy being able to connect and learn from other artists/photographers. In the past, I was a project manager for a University in their development of an interactive web based system, where I coordinated with end users to determine their needs, and with programmers to balance their work load while implementing the changes that would most benefit the successful operation of the system. I understand the balancing act. What I found most successful in making our users happy was to provide personal, positive attention to their basic (system) needs.

My first suggestion would be to reduce the cost that is charged by the merchandise print producers. Even though the artists can set their own profit amount, the recommended margins are very low. Reducing the printer charges would enable artists/photographers to potentially offer their images at a lower price and still make a decent profit. This would make the purchase more affordable for the customer, and potentially leading to increased sales. Not naive enough to think this would happen, but I think it would have the biggest impact so it is first on my list of suggestions.

So how to make the system users happy? Our goal was simple: Make life easier for the people who use the system. Try to pick some "low hanging fruit" - easy changes to implement with each system update and announce to end users. This keeps them aware that they are getting personal attention & improves morale of the system user.

A couple of suggestions:
Add functionality to allow your artist/photographer/group admin users to:
Gain helpful information regarding customer purchases - how did they find the image they purchased, did they see it through a specific group for example? A breadcrumb trail could help know upon which groups the artist should focus their promotional attention.
Allow artists to position the small square iconic image (avatar), instead of the default placement to produce a thumbnail view that is flattering to the overall image and could lead to a sale that may otherwise be skipped over.
Give admins the ability to select multiple featured images and remove them from the home page instead of having to select one at a time, which is very time consuming. Shorter maintenance time means more time available to promote.

When I try to think of solutions to problems, I always try to ask myself if I am giving positive personal attention to the people involved.
You have a smooth running system that you should be proud of. Congratulations!

Robert Yaeger

Instagram: @robyaeger1
See and purchase my work:
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/robert-yaeger.html

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

You pretty much nailed it, Bonfire.

Funny thing is personally I didn’t have an issue with the new search

 

Yuri Tomashevi

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean!
Your information provided much needed clarity.

I would like also to second Frank's suggestion to invite top sellers to this forum. Their input would be very valuable.
There is one more consideration (besides their input) why it is important to invite them.

It would be very interesting to know how many of top 50 sellers are working in small niche, like Soosh, and how many of them are working in broad categories, like most of us.

 

Dora Hathazi Mendes

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean for the valuable information, it was a great read, very reassuring! Also thank you for Abbie for the outstanding work , and her patience with us!

I like also the new Sales Discussion, I find very inspiring to see numbers bigger than mine, or even huge numbers, because it shows that it is possible, and where I would like to be in the future with Fine Art America!

Thank you!
Dora

 

Mike Daniels

6 Years Ago

I’m here to meet new artists hopefully get some great followers. There is greater strength when all work together, for sure there are few who like to work together which is fine by me but if one sells one art maybe three in a month that is great if one sells only one in a month then your recognized which makes it even better. What I’m seeing here on fineartamerica is a lot of likes and few have followers, if we choose not to collaborate or even support one artist or more artists then it’s known to be a squash as some have mention work together as I said also, I truly believe having a systematic system down in a business making money there’s always that one that keeps that motivation going, art is just not art, it’s genuine, real an very respectful. If I see my sales go up then I stay if I see not move within a years time then I move along. I’ve made money, set goals and being here it’s a place I called home of art loving people so with that said I’d like everyone know I support each an everyone you doing what you love doing best , being creative, being logic and most important being real. Maybe the prices should come down sounds crazy but I’m sure there have been viewers going oh my god that much, the cost can be harsh but also can be helpful for both parties

 

Lisa Kaiser

6 Years Ago

Well, I didn't read the entire thing, Sean, but thank you for all you have done. Fineartamerica is awesome, the products are amazing and I love the site.


I'm loving all of it daily, better than Facebook where I also sell a bit as well, but this site is the best!

Love the forum and I have gotten lots of advice, a lot that has really worked.

Thanks for clearing the air and putting it all in perspective for us.


Maybe, I'll go back and read...I always ran from home when dad came home as a child. I thought we were in trouble for a min there.

 

Adam Jewell

6 Years Ago

The addition of sales numbers to the sales threads is spot on because some of the most prolific folks that offer sales advice don't sell anything on FAA. I'd love to see a dollar amount next to it as well so you could tell if someone sold 10 cards and made $20 or10 big prints and made $5,000 that would be an even better gauge of who to pay attention to.

 

F A Print Shop

6 Years Ago

I have the lowly zero, I have sales experience, face to face, working my way through college. I take on many SM ideas to market my work. I study the markets etc......


I think above all else the new system on sales threads is to cut out the grandstanding. There will always be someone selling more than the next person. And someone selling less. Judge the content of the discussion, the ideas. I hope most of the grandstanding is over with by any of us. It is very disruptive in my opinion.

If I had a 20 and you had a 200, but you were insisting I have to only listen to you......where does that lead? If the person with a good idea has a 3? So you ignore them? Because a 40 comes along?

Just a note, the stats we all want are actually on referrals from different SM along with conversions. We all individually want to know what will work for each of us privately.


David Bridburg - My Artwork

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

no on the dollar amount. i don't need scammers targeting me.... i just kind of wish it was a life time avg and not something that will fluctuate. i can't help it if no one wants to buy anything.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Lisa Kaiser

6 Years Ago

So I went back and read and it's very refreshing information, way to go on your business success story, Sean.

I found the current state of FAA interesting and am enjoying the articles on successful artists, so much fun to read about them. Thx again.

 

Patricia Strand

6 Years Ago

Mike, it now states "sales per month" but doesn't state year. Would it work to state "sales per month for current year," to make it more clear? Or maybe that is self-explanatory.

 

Steve Gass

6 Years Ago

Well done, thank you!

 

Jill Love

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean. I read your email with interest. 99% of the time, I don't have time to read 'sky is falling' discussions. So I've missed a lot of that. I am here to learn, get exposure, and hopefully sell something now and then. We are all different fish in a very, very large pond. Thank you to those people, you know who you are, who always comment, start discussions, and provide those of us who aren't as well versed the information that helps. I've been here a few years now and I'm not going anywhere. :)

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

@Patricia - the year assumes its this year. but it then splits past january.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Lance Vaughn

6 Years Ago

@Sean

Yes, Anne Geddes needs lots of help with promotion. Thank God she's getting a chance on this site.

 

Purple Ducky Designs

6 Years Ago

Thank you for the info Sean, now I understand things better. I am a totally idiot when it comes to search platforms, SEO stuff and all that so I wasn't quite sure what everyone was fussing about. Then again, I tend to ignore that stuff regardless of which sales site I am on, I figure I will make a sale when I make a sale and just keep plugging my stuff on the various social media I am on..

 

Daniel Ghioldi

6 Years Ago

Thanks, Sean.
The numbers show where the false Gurus and the Apocalipticos are hanging the poster to the chest of: "The end of the world is near."
Thus each one will have the option of being able to choose whether or not to believe in the member that preaches sales solutions and actually does not sell anything. Or follow who offers answers and suggestions that are supported by their sales numbers.
Without discussing whether he sold greetingcards or canvases. The fact is that it sold something and is consistent throughout the year.

 

Catherine Reading

6 Years Ago

Thank you for providing this information Sean. I like the clarity of the Sales Discussion change as I know it would have been helpful when I started on FAA last year and will now be useful as I continue to learn more about marketing. It doesn't mean I would ignore the opinions of those with low sales as we can learn from their ideas too.

I think it will also be a helpful tool for assisting in self-critiquing our own work and marketing strategies by allowing us to look at the work of people who are selling well and comparing to our own efforts.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

My goodness, how can this possibly mean anything other than what it says?

"Here's how the average monthly sales volume is calculated. Our code adds up the total number of items that you've sold in the past twelve months and then divides it by 12. The average will look something like this:

"8 Sales / Month"

Here's the meat of it:

"Our code adds up the total number of items that you've sold in the past twelve months and then divides it by 12."

I personally don't think that what anyone did five or six years ago is all that important.

I joined in 2012. There were 100,000 members and one million images.

Today there are 500,000 members and over 5 million images.

IMHO, five-year-old advice and statistics are not nearly as valuable. I would much rather see the current data collected under current conditions. 12 months is as far back as I would be interested in.

Q: "What does the last 12 months mean?
A: "Referring to the most recently completed 12 month period. For example, trailing 12 month earnings refers to a company's earnings over the 12 months ending on the last day of the most recent month."




 

Bill Swartwout

6 Years Ago

Floyd, evidently some folks have difficulty reading - or (more likely) didn't take the time to read before making suppositions. Sad, indeed.

 

Gales Of November

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean!

 

Ira Marcus

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean for the informative post and for running such a great enterprise. I am glad to see effort being made to keep the forums factual and positive. Sadly, there will always be a certain amount of negativity from individuals who have a chip on their shoulder. That is the nature of open forums. I don't make my living selling my art. If not for this site, I probably wouldn't sell anything, nor would I have as vast an audience as I enjoy here. Even with limited marketing I have been able to sell about a dozen items in my first 12 months. Not to shabby for a hobbiest. Of course I would love to do more, but I'm not sure I'm up to the task to do what it will take to have steady high sales. So I just glad that for $30./year this platform is available to my and my buyers.

PS Abbie does an awesome job monitoring these forums.

 

See My Photos

6 Years Ago

I've been Neflix bingeing but this is quite entertaining as well. I was expecting the entire forum to be closed and predict it most likely will be in the next 2-3 years.

 

Angelina Ramirez

6 Years Ago

Thanks for posting this Sean.

Showing how much a person sells on a monthly average will give some good reality to any discussion about money/sales.
That's a fantastic idea.
Of course, there will always be Henny Penny's and internet know it all type people.
The reality check of sales will give a good balance to discussions.

Creative bunches always have lots of ideas, it doesn't mean they are all good.

Every time I think about how the best sellers do not come to the forum, I think to myself "Of course not, they are too busy making art."
It's true we all need to develop business acumen but focusing on our art, and the perfection of it...that drive can be maddening, especially when we aren't selling.
Then we flip to trying to develop business acumen, how to sell what we have...and that can be maddening too.
I've been on that same loop myself for years.

I wish it were an easier thing to understand, I'm sure many do. Maybe we all need some business courses. =) Would you recommend any?

I am really happy with my experience here. I don't get on the forums often but I still see this as a great place to be a part of.

 

Georgiana Romanovna

6 Years Ago

Thank you very much, Sean. A very informative and rational post! I must admit I’d sort of withdrawn from the forum due to keeping busy and the general feeling it was a place to argue and complain. Hopefully your post will quel some in fighting.
Happy Day to you and all.

 

Mini Arora

6 Years Ago

Interesting to know all this. Thank you for enlightening us!

 

Jon Glaser

6 Years Ago

Thank YOU!!! I have to confess that I complained in March/April, but I was out of line and apologized then and will do so here again..keep up the great work Sean.. This is an awesome place. Its not easy and one has to work at it, but nothing in life is easy.

Over a year ago I canceled all other POD's and even cut back my local gallery showings.. Now I concentrate on FAA and marketing(sometimes). While other local artists might make a sale of 1k or more, that comes with having to pay for framing and printing, bringing the artwork to a gallery(subtract commission when sale occurs) to display the artwork and then delivering the artwork to buyer. That is alot of work for making a couple hundred dollars more..ITS NOT WORTH IT. This is the best thing every since chocolate cake was invented..

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

6 Years Ago

Thank you for taking the time to share the facts with us.

 

Silly Jon. Nothing is THAT good!!!

 

Frank J Casella

6 Years Ago

"Over a year ago I canceled all other POD's and even cut back my local gallery showings.."

Agreed. Didn't know I was in such good company Jon.

... also what Abbie said.

 

Denise Beverly

6 Years Ago

Just adding my thank you to the rest.

 

Well said Sean and thank you for the opportunity you have given all of us.

 

Val Arie

6 Years Ago

Interesting read...thank you!

 

Lisa Kaiser

6 Years Ago

I would like to say that I follow Linda Woods blogs and have found her advice to fellow artists very sound and helpful.

I use her advice to market and sell at a gallery I am in and I cannot thank you enough, Linda for sharing!

 

Tony Caviston

6 Years Ago

To whom it may concern

As an older artist I'm not a good communicator, I use the discussion site mostly to solve a problem I might have. I do enjoy reading other artist's discussions. I am not of the computer generation, however I find the FAA site fairly easy to navigate. Even though I have sold very few prints , I find it a great site and very enjoyable.

 

Dan Barba

6 Years Ago

Hello Sean,

A most helpful and accurate post from you. Everything you mention is true. It's just human nature to have non-objective expectations.
For me, though, I joined about a month ago and have already uploaded quite a few images, but there are many, many more to come. '
As far as what you recommend, I do intend to follow all your expert advice and suggestions, because I know them to be true.

Best to you and Abbie,

Dan Barba

PS Have you visited my photos and bio in the About section? What do you think?

 

Kathy Moll

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean, and all who help make Pixels/Fine Art America an informative, fun, productive and quality platform to promote one's work. And thanks to all the artists who contribute their views, suggestions, sale results, etc.
Regards, Kathy

 

Adam Jewell

6 Years Ago

If there any chance it would be possible to post the conversion rates from FAA as a whole vs the artist websites as a whole? Even something like the conversion rate on FAA is 20% higher or lower than on the AWS?

The big question being where to send traffic, to a recognizable brand like FAA or an artist site that almost nobody has heard of where sensitive credit card info will be input.

 

Debbie Oppermann

6 Years Ago

Thanks for the very informative post Sean!

 

Marlin and Laura Hum

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean, for this informative and helpful message!

 

Bill Posner

6 Years Ago

Insightful and informative, thank you.

 

Claudio Lepri

6 Years Ago

Ciao Sean and all the Team,

I appreciate the infos in your message and in all the messages in this discussion thread.
As newbie I don't comment about the counter.
I'd like to share my vision: FAA is magnifique, but everyday I understand better it's more than a shopwindow, it's a system with lot of functions to be understood also for my advantage.
So, it's key to match my effort post more personal works and marketing them on twitter as I'm doing, with the functions, features of FAA (to say nothing of FAA people!).
It looks like "Indipendent. Together" :-)
Have a good day / Buona giornata
Claudio

 

Claudio Lepri

6 Years Ago

Just to update the opt-in for the "my discussion tab"

 

Terry DeLuco

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean! I love it here and feel very blessed to be a part of FAA! and thank you Abbie and staff for all you do!

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Excellent question Adam.

 

Mel Steinhauer

6 Years Ago

Many thanks Sean for the explanation and for all that you do.

I have been here for 9 years now, have learned a lot and am very happy with my sales and all of the opportunities that FAA has provided me.

Keep up the good work !

Best wishes!

http://ScenesFromFarAndNear.com

 

Robert Potts

6 Years Ago

Forget the advice. Just pay attention to what sells here. The whole story is there.

And the best advice often comes from folks who do not sell.

I am certain that many folks use the FAA site to drum up their own business, cutting out the middle man.

But any insight is good.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

problem with that is, if they bought it themselves, then do you go on that? plus everything gets to the sales page, even things that can't print like noise (unless they changed that of course). i think what's best isL

Person A - i sell lots of stuff this is what i do, then you look at their work and its really nice, they are probably telling the truth.
Person B - says the same thing, but their work is all junk snap shots, you could ignore their work
Person C - gives crazy sounding advice, and their work is comprised of movie posters and snap shots, then you'll have to just use your best judgement if they are telling the truth or not.

i've seen some weird things on that sales page


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Patricia Strand

6 Years Ago

I agree that you have to consider the source. If a member is giving sales advice, they should be able to back that up.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

when i was on that critique site a long time ago, when someone said - you should do such and such. if that person had no work or their work was really bad, you can either accept it as good advice, or toss it. its the work experience people have. for me i hope my art gets to people, but i'm a novice knowing only the basic stuff to sell. i think even if someone was a very good salesperson, teaching that to other people might be nearly impossible. either you have the ability or you don't. i never had that salesman personality.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Fred Hood

6 Years Ago

I just joined the site last night and am looking through it to see how things work. (I have not uploaded any images yet). This article is indeed helpful. However it is disappointing that so few members participate in the forums. I mean 250 out of half a million? Where is everyone?

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

while we talk, half the world sleeps. many people here i think have multiple accounts, some might be fake or waiting trolls yet to be discovered. many post then vanish never to be seen again.. until one day 5 years from now when they complain they haven't sold anything.

many people don't like posting because they are a bit shy and don't like that sort of thing (many have told me that). others are using this place as a fulfillment place. and others this is just another store and they don't bother with the forum. i'm on a few sites, this is the forum i'm on. some don't speak english that well so they probably don't bother. others don't have anything interesting to say, and they just lurk. pretty sure of the ones that are logged in to see the forum, there are many that just read it.

others are dead, they died while working here, and the account remains, they don't.
---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

FlyingFish Foto

6 Years Ago

I have always appreciated the professional, uncomplicated, and efficient way FAA has provided a venue for artists to display and sell their work. Along with the varied options of interaction, discussions, contests, event announcements, etc., what more could you ask for?! Completely agree that it is up to the individual artists to work hard at their own additional promotion ideas to increase their sales and grow their business !

Thank You
for your Great Vision Sean & Staff :)

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago


"others are dead, they died while working here, and the account remains, they don't. "

How many of them are still giving advice, sales or otherwise? :-)

 

Joann Vitali

6 Years Ago

Thank you for explaining things Sean :)

 

Lesa Fine

6 Years Ago

Thanks for bringing all up to date Sean. Hopefully 2019 will be a stellar year for FAA artists!

 

Kevin OConnell

6 Years Ago

Sean, Just came back here after deleting my account a while back. Many reasons for leaving here, which no need to hash out here, it is what it is. I see that the many here that talk game while your away, kiss up like mice when you make your presence here. About a month from not it will go back to the usual.

I just have one question before I delete this account. Are you going to inform the membership that all the links they added for faa for page sponsoship don't help them in any way. The sponsorship that didnt work for a very long time, which in turn pushed your company way up in the search. Or did all those links disappear now that sponsorship is gone? As stated below, they don't just disappear, the artists themselves have to delete them. As stated above, more than 95 percent of your members don't use this forum, so an email would make sense.

Thanks

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

technically he can't erase the links. the sponsors probably aren't coming back, you have to erase it on your side. of course this will probably bring the rank of the site down.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Kevin OConnell

6 Years Ago

Your absolutely right. Maybe a member wide email to let everyone know would be the right thing to do.

 

Annette M Stevenson

6 Years Ago

This site is wonderful if you work can be seen but if you are hidden deep within the pages your work will not get noticed. Twitter works with the site and is great. Facebook does not work for your business page any longer. You can post to your personal page. Not sure how to post this site to my facebook business page. I tried to copy the URL but I couldn't get it to work. So it looks like we are doing collections now on here even more so than before. I could not find my name and photo under independent artist and I looked through many pages.

 

Patricia Strand

6 Years Ago

I don't think there is any web business out there that emails the members when something is taken away or not working. So it's great that we have this forum, because when asked, we usually get an answer here. (Not kissing up, Kevin, lol... don't think I've ever done that or would, blech.)

 

Annette, put your name in the Independent artist area and you can see yourself just fine, Annette M Stevenson. Go to your image page and press the Facebook share icon. You do not need to copy and paste links

Kevin, you expect Sean to go to everyone's web pages and delete their sponsorship links. Impossible. We cannot get onto your websites.

Patricia is right. That is what the forum is for.




 

Karen Zuk Rosenblatt

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean. I appreciate all your work and the explanations of "how things really work". I can imagine how frustrating it has been to listen to all the complaints.

 

Peggy Collins

6 Years Ago

Thanks, Sean! All good info to know. I like the "sales discussion" idea.

 

David Morefield

6 Years Ago

Sean, I love your solution of posting sales averages in "sales Discussions," I bet that cuts those posts dow dramatically.

If it were for FAA, I would have to deal with taking orders, curating my own eCommerce site, find printing/framing services, deal with shipping, etc... Instead, FAA does that for me when I make a sale. It's pretty awesome.

Lately I haven't been very active due to other things going on in my life, but I hope you and Abbie know that your hard work is appreciated.

 

Annette M Stevenson

6 Years Ago

The facebook icon on the image site downloads to my personal page instead of my artist's business page. How do I get the information to download to my business page? Thank you

 

Click on the share button
At the top it says Share On My Timeline
That is a drop down. Click and choose Share On A Page I Manage
Choose your page
Add your own writing
Share

 

Annette M Stevenson

6 Years Ago

Thank you

 

Alan Armstrong

6 Years Ago

:)

 

Robert Kernodle

6 Years Ago

... nothing major to say, except thanks a bunch to the top dog for all your meticulous effort to make this website possible, and, oh, by the way, I will never knowingly participate in a thread tagged as a "sales thread", because the number under my name would probably be a decimal with multiple zeros before the first whole number ... something like 0.00000014.

Yeah, I can give you some advice -- do little and you get little, and I say this quite confidently from great experience. (^_^)

Oh, I almost forgot, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought it might be a discussion about the .png image format. What can I say?

 

Elisabeth Lucas

6 Years Ago

Thank you so much, this was really helpful!

 

Michael Niessen

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean for the article. In particular, for the link to the article about kickstarting our sales. As many other artists, I have yet to sell anything on FAA, but I really don't understand how they could blame you, just as it would be ridiculous to blame Amazon for not featuring anyone's products just because they are available in their store.
Anyway... thanks for providing a platform for us all. I'll keep on working on both my photography and building a following, hoping to soon join the ranks of your selling artists.
Cheers from Belgium!
Michael

 

Colin Hunt

6 Years Ago

The most informative post I've read in the discussion boards. Many thanks for posting it.

 

David Smith

6 Years Ago

Regarding sales discussions.

What's the criteria?

Because I don't see why this was made a sales discussion.

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=4304955

 

Mike McGlothlen

6 Years Ago

All I want is for people to see my work. Sales are bonus’s! Thanks for all you do for us, very much appreciated.

 

Judy Kay

6 Years Ago

Just a suggestion: To provide the "quality control in responses to sales inquiries I would like to suggest a system that may be an improvement on the existing one, Rather than flagging a inquiry as a "sales inquiry " and displaying the sales statistics for the respondent, Why not restrict sales discussions altogether in much the same way it is done for politics and religion, When a sales inquiry occurs it could be flagged as such, closed with a link directing the inquirer to a panel of elite artists, FAA could choose that panel of artists who offer their services in exchange for the added publicity they will receive from that service, The link could read as such: "Ask the Pros". The pros could be a elite team of traditional artists,(painters) digital artists, photographers, etc, This system could offer the quality responses FAA wants without the "name and shame" or "name and fame" system as it exists,

 

Charles Eberson

6 Years Ago

Thanks for the info, Sean. Social media has become fertile ground for naysayers and I have witnessed on my Facebook feed. Some people hover over their keyboard and say things in near anonymity that they wouldn't ordinarily say. Don't get distracted by it. Keep on keeping on. Charles.

 

Frank J Casella

6 Years Ago

Excellent idea, Judy!

 

David Smith

6 Years Ago

Judy

Might as well shut down the forum then.

Sales and marketing discussions are the only things that have anything to do with the actual purpose of the site.

I'd still like to know what the criteria is for marking a thread as a sales thread.

There are 2 at the moment that I can't figure out for the life of me.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

being that this is a store, sales will always come up. i was wondering the same thing. one of them became a sales thread, then it was removed. i'm guess its a just in case kind of thing, but it does stop some people from wanting to join in. i'm also not sure why we aren't allowed to discuss prices now.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Edward Fielding

6 Years Ago

There is always celebrity deaths and health problems to discuss.

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

I think it has to do with new members initiating the threads or asking for advice, and it's probably not retroactive unless it catches Abbie's attention.

 

Ryan Burton

6 Years Ago

Can the sales per month under our headshot appear on all discussions? I think this is a great thing and can help people.
Thank you,

 

Bill Swartwout

6 Years Ago

Ryan, that would, indeed, be interesting.


---------------
~ Bill
BillSwartwout.com

 

Joseph C Hinson

6 Years Ago

If the sales are put on every discussion, I would not participate in any discussions. Not sure anyone cares about that, but this whole sales thing is getting more nuts every day.

 

Ryan Burton

6 Years Ago

I think the sales thing is valid. I don't have a lot of sales but it would help to know who is selling and who isn't. That's the point of me being here. when I see someone with a lot of sales I may take there opinion more than others.

 

Mike Daniels

6 Years Ago

I agree with Joseph C Hinson and as far as Ryan Burton’s comment as far as anyone selling or not I haven’t sold any yet, best wishes to everyone hopefully this topic about sales will change with great gratitude in the near future or hopefully soon.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

the reason its not listed everyplace is because its not anyone's business. i'd like to know how much my coworkers made... that's a secret though. its my choice if i want to reveal it. if your number is high, you wanna bet you'll get copy cat's following you? that would be extra annoying.

plus you can't tell if people are selling or not. because its an average you will get it over the span of a year. unless you sell pretty well all the time, then your number is high. people selling now and then, may show up as a big zero, even though they made some healthy sales.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Kathleen Bishop

6 Years Ago

I understand the logic behind displaying sales stats in sales threads. It's great that it's set up to provide fair warning so we can choose to participate or not. However, if it ever becomes policy to display my private information along with my posts in every thread, I would be outta here. None of my business how much anyone else sells or doesn't sell, and vice versa.

 

Kathleen Bishop

6 Years Ago

To Mike's point - sales stats don't differentiate between someone who sells 20 cards in a year and makes forty bucks, and someone who sells 5 canvases in a year and makes well over a thousand.

 

Ed Taylor

6 Years Ago

Thread started 8 days ago and somehow I missed it. Anyways, thanks Sean. I don't know I've participated in a sales thread but if anyone wants to know, I have zero sales here. :)

 

Again... Sales threads are chosen by myself normally, sometimes Sean if he is about.

A member may ask to have their thread made a sales thread if they believe it is apt

This is what we are doing for now. This is what is happening.

Like all other threads, moderators have the right to make changes as they see fit. We do not ask for members permission first, sorry

Not all threads are sales threads, nor do they need to be. We are not showing ANY sensitive data and will not do so in the future.

Abbie
--------
Community & Technical Support Manager
“Everything you can imagine is real.”
― Pablo Picasso

 

Ed Taylor

6 Years Ago

Just an observation and don't want to beat a dead horse here, but, Joseph asked earlier if the sales discussions are going to be marked private and Abbie responded, it depends. So, if one isn't private buyers will be able to see who is selling and who isn't. One would think buyers would be attracted to posters that make a lot of sales so, you'd be an idiot to post in a sales thread with little or no sales, even if it was just to make a non advice type comment. Sean stated only about 250 artist participate (out of half a million) in discussions, just curious what those numbers will be in a year from now.

 

Hopefully more :-)

I think the privacy depends on the topic starter. If people think they should be private by default I can do that, no worries.

If a member wants theirs as a sales thread, perhaps then allow them the choice over privacy.

It's up to people then if they post or not in that thread

Fair?

 

Ed Taylor

6 Years Ago

Not sure I know enough about FAA's discussion threads to supply an opinion on if its fair or not, but, most "sales" threads are started by newer members/artist (I would think). If you even say "hi - welcome aboard" to that new member in the thread and then that thread is deemed a sales thread your sales are broadcast to everyone. If one is concerned about that its just safer to not participate is the point I was attempting to make.

 

That's everyone's choice. I've seen already that people are still posting in them so it's a non issue I feel

 

David Smith

6 Years Ago

I'll vote for private by default just because I think that any discussion of sales or marketing shouldn't be seen by potential buyers.

 

Hans Zimmer

6 Years Ago

Ed, that was precisely the reason why i did not say hi to the last two new members ...

 

Ok, good compromise. Sales posts private by default. We can live with that.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

There has already been a significant decline in posts in a number of the sales threads.

Not saying that is good or bad. Just pointing that out.

If you want to talk fair, some of the older threads that are being "bumped" that are nothing but sales threads should be designated so. Not that I really care because I have said all I have to say about sales in those older threads and probably any future threads.

I am not against the idea or the concept that Sean was trying put forth with identifying the sales numbers, I just think there is a better way of achieving the same thing with less disclosure and more credibility. But this was faster and simpler to do so I don't blame Sean for going this route.

 

Mark Tisdale

6 Years Ago

I haven't really said anything about this one way or the other. Even volume is more than I care to disclose about my business. But fair warning is given on any thread where that's going to happen, so I've no beef with it.

However, the threads that are basically sales/marketing advice should, I think, be given the same treatment. if someone is giving advice on what supposedly generates sales for them, then you would think their numbers should be shown as they are in any other designated sales thread. Extreme ditto for the ones that are peddling books, courses, and the like. To me those are the most clearly sales oriented threads there are here.

Mark

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

I agree about sales posts private. I think all marketing posts should be private too.

 

Peter Gartner

6 Years Ago

Sean is telling it as it is, not as we might want it to be.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Bump... to important to see just slip away...

Maybe should be a "super sticky"

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

6 Years Ago

Bump again.

 

Guys you do not need to keep bumping this now. We will do it every so often, thank you

 

M G Whittingham

6 Years Ago

When someone does a Google search, Google limits the search results for any one website to a maximum of three listings per search page. They do this not only to "democratize" the search results but also to make sure that people get a broader spectrum of results.

I was wondering if FAA does the same thing in their search results? Some of the posts on the Discussion boards suggest otherwise.

Every artist has a certain look and feel to their images. It would seem to me that if FAA limited search results to a maximum of 3 per page per artist (or something similar) then it would give the potential buyer a broader spectrum of looks to chose from. After all, if a buyer is not convinced to chose one artist after looking at three of their images, what good does it do to look at say 10 more images by the same artist for the same keyword?

Would limiting images to 3 per artist per search page help improve FAA sales and also potentially help more artists? I would think so.

As a side benefit, it would probably also help discourage artists from "keyword stuffing" their images. It would also discourage artists (particularly photographers) from uploading to FAA what are essentially 20 different variations of the same image. IMHO this does nothing but clutter up the search results to the detriment of FAA and all the other artists.

If I were Sean, I would try this. Abbie has FAA ever considered this?

 

I don't know.

Sean will be in over the next week to reply to some points raised.

 

Cliff Wassmann

6 Years Ago

This is a great post. I use FAA as my exclusive online sales site for prints and it's been the best performing platform I've ever used to try and sell my work.

 

Lisa Malecki

6 Years Ago

I am a NEWBIE, so happy to read your post. Thanks, Lisa

 

Thank you! The Sales Discussion idea will be really helpful. I only wish it was retroactive!

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

.

 

Karim Alhalabi

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean

Photography Prints

something different...
to promote my sales

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

If it were retroactive Bluewater, people who already posted wouldn't have the option to opt out.

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Correct.

It can't be retroactive. I don't think FAA wants to be disclosing what some people think is sensitive information without their approval. And that is an excellent corporate policy in the day and age where people are always complaining about privacy.

What kind of privacy policy would it be to be saying we can not disclose the buyer's information or the source of where your buyers are coming from but we can disclose the seller's propriety information?

Hi Susan, just want to mention I miss your moderating style and your wit and humor. I thought you did a wonderful job. Thank you for that.

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

Susan that was my comment from early in the thread. Bluewater copied and pasted it, which is fine if it represents his opinion too. The following rant isn't directed at you, but it's something that I've been thinking about since Sean posted this. It's just one side of the complaints about posting the numbers.

I said "retroactive" because it never occurred to me that people would attach some kind personal worth to the number of sales they have here. Maybe I'm the odd one out, but I spent years here with sales that would have been a zero or a fraction that would display as a zero. It wouldn't occur to me to be embarrassed about it. Everyone is at different numbers for a zillion different reasons. There is gorgeous art that doesn't sell well, and every darn day I find myself scratching my head about some of the stuff that does sell here. Some folks have day jobs and can't put all the marketing time in they'd like to. Some have physical limitations. Some don't want to market. Some aren't here to sell online. Most have something to contribute regardless.

The issue is in misrepresentation, whether intended or not. Transparency is good for those seeking advice. As long as we have been, and continue to, represent ourselves honestly, everyone's voice is valid. People starting out should know if someone like me blathering on and on about marketing their artwork has actually put that rubber to the road. But conceptual discussions are good too. It doesn't mean that someone with zero sales here but a solid knowledge of working with social media, or galleries, or art fairs, or even their medium, should shy away from a professional discussion because they haven't had some arbitrary success on this one platform. The number just tells the reader if someone sells here on FAA. That's it.

In the resulting conversations, many have said they just won't participate. That feels—and I say this gently—childish to me. Of course you can have valid input if your numbers here aren't high. None of us even approach the numbers of the really big sellers here, probably not by 10x or more. We're all little bitty fish in this big pond.

Some advice here is based on a lifetime of success selling art in other places, and that can easily be explained or mentioned. Take Roger Swezey for example. I listen to every single word he says about selling in the real world —he has made a lifelong career out of venues that terrify me and offers great insight about interacting with clients—but his numbers here are low. I HOPE that won't keep him from sharing knowledge, he doesn't seem like the type to care about posturing and he's always been transparent about his sales here anyway. As have most (all?) that have been in discussions based on what we now know.

I was so surprised by those who sort of freaked out about sales numbers showing in these newly labeled discussions. It was baffling to me, because I admire you for your skill, and a bunch of other factors too. I hope this feeling of embarrassment or the manufactured idea that those with low numbers don't belong in sales discussions wears off. It's a silly idea—the number has no inherent value. It's just a way to let newbies know who sells here, and anything beyond that can be easily explained or discussed... "I sell at art fairs", " I had a marketing career", "this is just my hobby but I'm great at blogging"...

If you have reservations about private information, then you do what's right for you. I don't see how the number of sales per month here is telling on any level - hence this whole rant - because you can't quantify those sales.

But I don't think others should shy away. I hope those that feel embarrassed or whatever learn to let it go and jump in with thoughts and ideas whenever they want. That's where a lot of the really good ideas come from anyway.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

"hence this whole rant "

Well, it was that. lol

The bottom line is, neither you nor I get to determine what others, including Sean, wants to establish as their own policies on privacy for their businesses. If you want to assign some kind of meaning to the fact that some prefer not to disclose certain information, you are certainly free to do so.

For the record, I never claimed to be a tier one seller here, nor has it ever been my goal. I have said that a hundred times here. And I have never seen anyone else claim to be one of the top sellers here, not of those posting regularly in the threads. Some we know already are better sellers than others, but I am not seeing what I would consider false claims.

The closest I have ever come to saying how much I sell is saying I manage to get one or two sales a day on average, sometimes more, sometimes less (none). I have said that a hundred times here in the past. Keep in mind that I have 5 or 6 accounts.

If that is not transparent enough, well, I don't know what to tell you.

As for any advice I have given regarding sales, someone please tell me when I have ever said anything at all that is not pretty much covered in the summary below? Especially in regard to the FAA search!! He does fall short of actually suggesting people actually take some sales, marketing and advertising classes, but other than that...



Summary
----------------------------------------------------------------
My biggest advice is to spend more time focusing on what you can control (e.g. creating incredible artwork, building your online following, building your e-mail list, developing a marketing strategy, collaborating with other artists and brands, building relationships with local art galleries, paying for online ads, etc.) and less time on what you can't (e.g. the FAA search engine, the FAA homepage, the FAA collections, the FAA newsletters, etc.) - Sean McDunn


 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

I'm sorry if you felt targeted by my post, I wasn't at all talking about you, but about what I understood was the greater reasoning behind making sales numbers visible and about a few posters who said they'd not participate because they were embarrassed by low numbers.

I have zero problem with those who don't want to share numbers for business reasons. That's why I said exactly that. And I also wasn't accusing anyone of misrepresenting themselves, but addressing the idea of transparency. The numbers/name combinations weren't surprising, because everyone here who talks about their sales has done so openly. Again, as I said.

Participate or don't, I just hate the idea that folks are attaching some personal worth or artistic merit to those numbers when that isn't the case. I don't want them to not join in for that reason.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

I did not feel you targeted "me" at all. But you did target all of us that made opposing comments. I was merely responding with my opinion with a direct response to your post. However, I am one of the few that has been outspoken about this exact program.

I am not at all against the transparency, I think this is much better than it was but I do feel the same thing could have been done differently.

I simply do not choose to participate. But if you go back a few weeks, maybe a month, you will see where I had already stated that I was out of the business of giving selling advice. If you go look at the threads there was about a two month period where I was out of the threads altogether.

This one caught my attention because it was something I had called for in the past and I am glad it has come about.

But let's keep the record straight. "In the resulting conversations, many have said they just won't participate. That feels—and I say this gently—childish to me." You as much as called the people that spoke against the program "childish".

You also implied there may be misrepresentation with this statement: "The issue is in misrepresentation, whether intended or not."

I simply do not think that has really happened particularly because of what I said above. Some people in some of the sales threads were very open in other threads about not selling much and some even admitted selling nothing.


 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Let me give you an example of a system that I think would work for me and maybe others.

We take the 250 or so members that are very active in the threads and often give advice.

Sean/Abbie can see their numbers already. They can take all the numbers and then grade them on a bell curve but instead of grades like A, B, C, we assign tiers.

Tier one would be the top sellers of those active in the threads. Tier two the second best, etc, etc, down to tier one, the people that are on the bottom.

I could do that already with the people that have already posted in the sales threads.

In fact, I just may do that just for kicks. (But not for public disclosure of course.)

And again, just for the record, I am not suggesting or asking Sean to change the system. The one he launched will work just fine for what he wants to do.

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

I called the idea of feeling embarrassed or ashamed about low sales numbers, and deciding to no longer participate in sales threads because of that, childish.
The behavior is childish to me, not the people.

 

Thank you Floyd.

Cynthia, totally agree you did not have a go at any person in the thread or on the site. Thank you for your opinion.

 

Bonfire Photography

6 Years Ago

I have been silent since I last posted in this thread. I am not embarrassed or ashamed of my totals which show as a 0 here even though I feel this is not accurate as I have sold some.

I feel as new people come in here they will only read the posts that have impressive numbers under their avatar and not reading posts with small or no numbers.

I have sold here but FAA is not my main area of focus. Neither do I offer up advice acting like a blowhard no it all. I speak/write honestly when it comes to selling work and what works for me.

But by placing a goose egg under my avatar comes across as discredited information so why would I offer anything at all. Zero means just that to most people. People do not work for 0 an hour, they would not sell something for 0 dollars unless charity. 0 points in any game is usually the loser of the game. Multiple and divide by 0 and you have 0. So you see people have a negative preconceived notion about seeing a 0 and most are viewed in a negative manner.

This is why I will not be adding anything to sales discussions here any longer because it will fall on blind eyes and lead to poo poo's by those with higher numbers.

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

I think people will read the message, and then maybe check the number. I don't have high numbers at all, but I certainly wouldn't discount someone with low numbers, for all the reasons I stated above. I don't think others would discount advice either.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i still wonder if there should be 2 numbers

1 for posters, the rest for cards and other smaller ticket items. someone selling a 100 cards, isn't the same as someone selling a 100 prints.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

if someone brags all the time, and their numbers are low, then you ignore.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

So far it appears to not be putting most people off who frequent marketing threads, including people with 0 sales.

I see no issues with the sales threads.

 

David King

6 Years Ago

True Mike, but I'll take 100 card sales over 1 print sale.

General selling advice is one thing, specific advice about selling on FAA is another.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Well, it is too soon to really get a feel for it, but when I went to get a sampling to play around with my idea of a tier system (for my own amusement only) I didn't find very many compared to what there used to be. Only three in the first two pages of the Discussions. One of them has 0 comments with 77 views.

But I do agree, that in and of itself, is not an issue.

 

Joseph Westrupp

6 Years Ago

David, I find that really curious. Why would you rather 100 card sales?


—————
bestilled.com

 

David King

6 Years Ago

"David, I find that really curious. Why would you rather 100 card sales?"

100 X $5 is a lot more than 1 X the markup of whatever print someone buys. Of course I'm talking about individual card sales, or any individual product sale for that matter. Also 100 sales vs 1 sale helps you a lot more in the search ranking here.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

people that sell cards in bulk only make a dollar per card. i sell few cards, when i was it was a lot price, people hang them up. on the plus side it would increase your ranking so it might be a good money maker in the long run. but i think its easier to sell cards when you have a saying on it. something hard to find, you don't have to market it as hard.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

David King

6 Years Ago

"people that sell cards in bulk only make a dollar per card."

I know, that's why I clarified to say "individual card sales". Still, for me 100 cards sold in bulk would be more than the largest prints sale I've ever had, and that's not because my markups are low it's because I've never sold a print that large.

 

Bradford Martin

6 Years Ago

Great post Cynthia and this part sums it up.
"Transparency is good for those seeking advice. As long as we have been, and continue to, represent ourselves honestly, everyone's voice is valid.....The number just tells the reader if someone sells here on FAA. That's it."

As for me my print sales started when I just made prints to show around and people would just buy them. Because of that success I sold at juried art shows and a few galleries asked to display my work years ago. I have had images on the net continuously for 23 years, and I sold and licensed to those who found my work on the internet for 10 of those years without benefit of being on a POD, or on a stock site. I just had a nice Google presence. So I try to share some of that knowledge because as I always say, a rising tide floats all boats.

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

Wow Floyd, never in a million years did I expect such a compliment from you. Thank you so much for saying that. Got a Kleenex? I think there's something in my eye.

::sniffle::

Cynthia, I am forever impressed by you. You are definitely the second smartest person on the boards =)

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

 

Cynthia Decker

6 Years Ago

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i wonder if we should have a thing at the bottom that says - vote to make this a sales thread. especially when its not marked a head of time, and there are people in it making crazy sounding claims.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

that average really moves around. i was 16 for a while. then for like 2-3 days i was at 17, now i'm down to 16 again. its a bit annoying how much it moves. or how quickly.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

It is not intended to be a scientific, precise study.

It is going to move around because of the way it is compiled. If it is a 12-month moving average, based on day to day, it may move every day as the last day drops off and a person had a sale or two that day, it falls off unless the new day that is picked up has the same number of sales.

It is another reason my Tiered system would be more accurate. However, I don't see where a sale or two in the average is really that significant. Those few sales of fluctuation would not be noticed unless a person moved one tier up or down and that would be less likely to happen. It would show more consistency.

What I see as important is the number for a seller being 0-3 vs a number being 38-40 or 60 to up over 130. vs the 40 and on down... one or two sales is not going to make a difference one way or the other.

 

Lutz Baar

6 Years Ago

Photography Prints

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Love it Lutz!!

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

6 Years Ago

Sorry Cynthia, you are now the third smartest person that appears in the thread :P

___________
Susan Maxwell Schmidt
So-so Group Moderator and
Artist Extraordinaire

 

Chuck Staley

6 Years Ago

It would be nice if we had the navigation arrows on our Artists Web Sites, the same as we do on FAA and Pixels.

 

Betsy Cullen

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean, your hardworking is greatly appreciated.

 

Brenda Schaffer

6 Years Ago

Thank you---especially as a newbie here, I appreciate the opportunities to learn how FAA works and how to work with it.

 

Clive Littin

6 Years Ago

Thank you Sean - you patience is inspiring!

 

Mandy Byrd

6 Years Ago

Thank you! I've recently started posting my photography work on FAA and this was very helpful information!

 

Rebecca Raybon

6 Years Ago

I have just retired and really want to take more time to post things on here. My sales are basically nonexistent. I am not sure I understand how all of this works yet so bear with me as I learn.

 

Linda Cox

6 Years Ago

Thank you for posting and explaining things. I joined FAA in 2014 and was here for a little while until life got in the way. I have only just now returned having forgotten any information that I might have garnered in the beginning. As a result I am starting over and consider myself a "newbie." I'm trying really hard to improve my images and find an audience that might like my work, and I must say I have gotten some wonderful information and suggestions from several people on this forum. I simply posted a question about how the system works and immediately got responses from some regular people on this forum. They all had what I considered good advice, one whose work I had admired when I first joined. I visited the galleries of the others who responded and considered their work and made up my on mind about the information they shared. I find this forum to be very helpful and I enjoy hearing how others react and find many ideas that are enlightening to me. I visited Linda Woods. Thanks for bringing her to my attention. By the way, one artist who joined FAA a year or so before me and who is still on this site, is now I am sure one of the big sellers. I can tell by what I see that she has been one of the ones who has busted her "butt" to promote her work on many different levels and it has paid handsomely for her. So, seems the answer to all my questions is: Get off your "butt" and get to work

 

Laurie Kaufman

6 Years Ago

Thanks, I see I have my work cut out for me.
Can you also post about the best way to price? Does that effect how/when the image is displayed when a buyer searches?

 

Ken Stanback

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean for posting this much needed update. I haven't had many sales here on FAA but have directed many in my field to activate an account for exposure and hopefully sales.

 

Robert Frank Gabriel

6 Years Ago

I recently rejoined some 3 weeks ago. Since that time, I have made 7 sales, enough to pay for two years on FAA.
Love the discussions, and the ability to see how our images look in frames, on T-shirts, shower curtains, etc.
But, um, $60 for a shower curtain?
And this is before I make a few dollars on the transaction.
It's suggested I ask for a $5.00 profit on the shower curtain. lol..Kind of insulting really.
High-end shower curtains on the market go for about $40.00.
Throw in a $10. profit for me and that would bring the price of a shower curtain to $50.00 which is still much, but acceptable because of the image embedded into it.
If I ask for a $10 profit, the FAA curtain would cost the buyer $70.
Now really!!! Would you spend $70 for a shower curtain???
That said, I sold 5 shower curtains the first week I was on FAA. Go figure.


 

Rebecca Raybon

6 Years Ago

You have some beautiful work here. Your drawings are fantastic. Don't give up.

 

Chuck Staley

6 Years Ago

There are developers and there are users.

There are programmers and there are workforce customers..

There are artwork sites and there are artists who use the site.

And then there are customers who buy the work.

Different worlds.

We should talk.





 

Kathy Anselmo

6 Years Ago

I think FAA is a great partner, providing great prints and products. I try to always positively promote the service, especially since I'm ramping-up in 2019. Being able to offer framed prints on high-quality archival paper made with ultrachrome is a dream come true. Maybe in 2019 my sales will break the internet; I'll be a trend in some far off land...

 

MaryEllen Lee

6 Years Ago

Thank you for taking the time to write all this, I’m new here and definitely want to learn ! I am clueless but I have managed to sell 3 pieces and bought 1 myself.
I am encouraged to keep painting and I appreciate the opportunity on this site, I definitely will grow here. Thank you, Merry Christmas to Fineartamerica.com

 

Elizabeth Narouz

6 Years Ago

As someone new to FAA, does the sales information collected count original pieces sold? I know FAA doesn't make any profit but is there a way to show that we made a sale a certain month over an original artwork on FAA?

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Nope, they have no way of knowing of when an original sells. The buyer has to contact you directly and there is no followup or followthrough from FAA.

 

Lisa Kaiser

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Floyd for answering that question for Elizabeth. I was trying to figure out why it would matter if an original sold because once an original is gone, it's gone...there is no ability to keep reproducing the same original...but what if I'm wrong?


So in the case where you can repeat a work which I cannot do, you might offer to sell a reproduction of a painting your paintings in the descriptions.

 

Andrea Lazar

6 Years Ago

WOW! I just read all that Sean explained that he and FAA do for the artists here - and it is staggering! To say we get a lot for a small investment is an understatement!

I love the idea of showing the average sales of people taking part in a 'sales' discussion so that we can give better weight to their advice/suggestions - very clever and effective!

So - thank you, Sean, for your vision and hard work, for your business savvy and work ethic that makes all this possible and allows someone like me , just an incidental photographer for now, to have the possibility of being seen in a gallery with such great variety and in the company of some very successful and inspirational artists.

It is a choice to be here - and for me, also, such a pleasure - sales or no sales! THANK YOU!

- Andrea

 

F A Print Shop

6 Years Ago

I think the people Sean meant to fry with the sales discussion status were those who were very negative, and not so truthful about how well they were selling. The people with how to ebook linked under their signature.

I have a zero monthly average, but I was not the target of the policy. I was always open that I have a very limited number of sales. I have been in and started a lot of marketing threads to explore ways of marketing. No false claims. Very honest efforts.

Dave

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

I was hoping for some sort of system that disclosed that some of the people that openly admitted they had few or no sales in one thread, were in other threads putting people and their ideas down that did have sales and were trying to help others. I have no problem with them disagreeing or even challenging those ideas of the better sellers but people should know what kind of bases in the success they were coming from.

I did not and do not need to know any specific number. I don't care if Joe Doaks sells 0, 1, 2 or 200 a month on average or specifically.

I was hoping for some sort of tiered system.

For instance. There are only 250 or so regular posters in the threads. I can see a system where and average for the entire group is compiled. Maybe that number is 100, just for argument. We already know from looking at the numbers we have seen already that 100 is a way too high. But it is an easy number to work with. lol

From that average, I could see a four-tier system. If it was 100 or whatever the average was, there would be four tiers. 0-25 would be the bottom tier or Tier 1, 26-50 would be Tier 2, 51-75 would be Tier 3 and over 75 would be Tier 4.

That would accomplish the same thing without disclosing any specific number of sales even as an average.

The system Sean came up does the same thing but at the same time, we see a lot fewer people willing to post in those sales threads and have limited a lot of input.

I think the tiered system would have discouraged fewer people.

 

I think I'm happy with it just as it is... And less misinformation is less misinformation no matter why it's happening tbh

 

F A Print Shop

6 Years Ago

Abbie,

I guess I missed the forest for the trees. I am equally happy with much less misinformation.

That does not mean people cant be wrong, but corrected, or opinionated, but coming to understand. It does mean going out of one's way to be wrong, opinionated, and call that "experience" is really out the window.

On a certain level this whole thing effects more experienced sellers more than newbies. And gives newbies a better chance. I am now somewhere in between.

Dave

 

Douglas Settle

6 Years Ago

Sean,
Very worthwhile read. Thank You.
Doug

 

Joe Thibodeau

6 Years Ago

I’m new just started uploading last week. Looking forward to seeing what 2019 might bring. Im a cartoonist and caricature artist of 40 years. Just dabbling in new venues this year.

 

Larry Lamb

6 Years Ago

Great idea about posting sales numbers in sales discussions!

 

Eleanor Bortnick

6 Years Ago

Thank you for posting this Sean.

 

Charlene Elliott

6 Years Ago

Just reading this now. I don't often browse through the discussions. I found it to be clear, interesting and helpful. You put a lot of time into this post. Unfortunate that you had to but I'm thankful I saw it.

 

Megan Dirsa-DuBois

6 Years Ago

I haven't been reading the discussions very often, but happened upon this and also found it very helpful. Thank you. It also sort of makes me very curious about who the top 50 are... and curious if you would ever publish the list of maybe top 10 of past years... ? Just being curious.

 

Stephen Stookey

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean, for the insight.

 

Patty Donoghue

6 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean,
Love transparency and hope to boost things using your advice.
Happy Successful 2019 for us all!!!
To the Studio!!

 

Michael Hills

6 Years Ago

Thanks for this GREAT info! I love FAA. Even if you do not sell a lot on here it's a great receptacle for your images!

one questions though - you have a featured artist video of Lindsay Rapp. I viewed her FAA profile and it is private and says - "These prints are all available at www.LindsayRapp.com To keep consistent pricing on the market of all variants, I will be hiding these print options on this platform. You can view every print in this album at: www.LindsayRapp.com" - Why would you feature her if she is not selling on FAA?

Michael

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Michael, www.LindsayRapp.com is a Shopify store which I am guessing is sending the orders to FAA for fulfillment.

 

Paul Cowan

6 Years Ago

I upload files and sit back waiting for sales to come and, contrary to Sean's assertion, I'm actually very happy to get what usually amounts to a few hundred dollars a year (ok, 2016 was a dead loss, but that's fair enough set against the others). Perhaps a bit of marketing effort would pay off, but I'm one of those people who doesn't like to self-promote.

 

Shelli Fitzpatrick

6 Years Ago

Appreciate this post Sean. As I am still waiting and promoting for my first sale here on FAA, this was an encouragement to me. I am here to learn and have learned from reading through the forums. In any forum you do have to sift the info take the useful and toss what you can't use.

Adding to Mike:
I have probably learned the most from you (here in this forum and in an outside article on a popular art blog) and I appreciate your time and efforts and sharing what you have learned. Just letting you know... but I also agree with Cynthia and Abbie.

 

Sharon McConnell

6 Years Ago

Thanks very much for posting this, Sean ... great info!

 

Cuiava Laurentiu

6 Years Ago

a "like" button just like the social networking sites placed for comments would be nice
are opinions or works placed in comments that deserve more or less appreciation
In my opinion :)

 

Delynn Addams

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean, great info. I never know but...

I have lots of links to self-promote here.
https://fineartamerica.com/profiles/delynnaddamsdesigns.html?tab=about

I run contests to help promote your artwork. Winners get promos online.

You can self promote from any of your images by clicking on the social media icons on each one of your artwork pages here at FAA.

Here is my group with links of self promoting.
https://fineartamerica.com/groups/on-sale-discounts-here-for-a-limited-time-promotion.html?showmessage=true&messageid=3597395&targetid=4500722#4500722

God bless you Sean and Abbie, FAA staff, for all your great works.

Happy new year everyone,
Delynn

 

Regina Valluzzi

6 Years Ago

Thanks Sean, the straight talk is appreciated.

Regarding the "sales threads" I have two suggestions for you to consider.
The first would be to make the thread "Private" at the same time the decision is made to start marking avatars with sales volumes.
The second would be to just use a "fancy restaurant" style scale ($, $$, $$$, etc) instead of items sold or $$ sales volume. It would provide the same transparency, but would also retain some privacy.
I'm confused about whether you're planning to mark average monthly $$ or items sold. Personally I think $$ volume is more informative.

I'd also add that I have tried my work on a number of POD sites, including one that I joined at roughly the same time as FAA. That other site has more items sold, but has provided far less income. FAA is the only place I've been able to see sales of high margin giclees fairly steadily. I'm not a super high seller here, but it's enough to help me target the marketing that I do and pay a few bills. I'm glad that FAA is transparent. Too many other internet things are opaque and require a never-ending learning curve (FB and Google ads for example).

Most of my Art income is from originals sales, but FAA is the only site I refer people to when they ask about prints. It's frankly the only one I can be sure they'll navigate easily, so thanks for that.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Years Ago

Cuiava Laurentiu, you can already do that on each image.

 

Brian Smith

6 Years Ago

I'm new to FAA (December) and like what I've seen so far. Thanks for posting this. I can only imagine the headaches you have to put up with, as anyone who spends time on social media knows well that it's way too easy for complainers and generally negative people to spread their unhappiness to a large audience with just a sentence or two. Hang in there. I'm looking forward to the ride.

 

Kristin Cook

6 Years Ago

Very informative and helpful! Thank you for taking the time. In my opinion, its already the artists responsibility to promote their own work unless, of course they pay for a specific marketing strategy.

Take care!

 

Nanci Worthington

6 Years Ago

Thanks for the valuable information and for your time !

 

Andrew Pacheco

6 Years Ago

Thanks for taking time out to share this information, Sean. I think these facts are very helpful.

The sales info on sales discussions are a great idea! Knowing for sure, the frequency the sales "experts" are selling with will be very helpful for others to gauge their own performance.

I'm pretty much in the same camp that Paul Cowan talked about in his post above. I'm very pleased with the amount of sales I make each year vs the lack of effort I put into my own marketing. I go for long stretches of time without producing or adding any new works to my portfolio too. No matter what I do, I seem to be able to count on a reasonable amount of sales that come through despite my lack of serious effort to promote.

 

Jacqueline Athmann

6 Years Ago

Great information! Thanks!

 

Jill Love

6 Years Ago

Laughing. I love that you jumped in and somehow I got a chance to read your reply. I try not to pay attention to the 'sky is falling' phenomena anywhere in my life. It's great to see statistics from the guy who really knows. Thanks again.

 

John Haldane

6 Years Ago

I just read this. Yes, 4 months after it was posted and pinned. I don't worry about the naysayers, complainers, and I ignore much of the advice. I guess that comes with being so old.

Yes, I wish I sold more - I sold none in Sept or Oct - but then I sold 7 in Nov and 6 in Dec and 2 so far in Jan. See? Sean is right. Fluctuation!

I wish I got more than just my own vote in contests... and then all of a sudden I win one (Holding Hands at any Age photo). Oh, OK.

Gee, why aren't I featured here? Who cares? I am published in the Carolina Nature Photographers Magazine two quarters in a row; I have had my photos selected for annual Blue Ridge Parkway Calendars 3 years out of the last 5; my pop art sells pretty well at the ZaPow Gallery here in Asheville; there are more important things to worry about.

I have a safari in Africa to plan for in Oct this year; my sister is dying of cancer; my son may be getting married before the year is out; LIFE matters.

I work in the ZaPow Gallery every Sunday and I absolutely LOVE selling my fellow artists' art. I tell people who wonder why I talk up everyone else's art more than my own: this isn't a competition. All art is different and people's tastes are as varied as the colors in a Photoshop palette. Buy what you like and like what you buy. It is all good.

I wish you all success. Leave poor Sean and Abbie alone. They work hard for everyone. It isn't a competition.

 

Judith Okoro

6 Years Ago

LOVELY WORK ON TRANSPARENCY

 

Judith Okoro

6 Years Ago

YES, TRANSPARENCY IS A LOVELY DISCUSSION

 

Karen Wiles

6 Years Ago

Kudos to you Sean! A GREAT way to handle the absurd negativity that invades Fine Art America! Well done and we thank you!!!
Fine Art America continues to be #1 and that is for a good reason...the positive!!!

 

Joseph A Langley

6 Years Ago

The 'artist cookie' info is very interesting. I clear those regularly, though. I personally have never seen an ad for the company on any device, but I don't go shopping for art on the internet either. Maybe I'll try that and report back later.

I do think the 'how to be more likely to be featured' is a little humorous. If I knew how to do A,B, and C I'd be pretty happy anyway - I don't necessarily need to be featured (not that I'd refuse).

I could already tell Fine Art America promotes it's featured artists - I think many of the artists know that. However, being a featured artist will only happen to a few people - I think people want to know about what goes on if they aren't one.

I also find it interesting about how many times I find people who promote very little (or not at all) make a good living selling products or services they provide. This seems to fly in the face of 'work hard and people will notice.' I think the first misconception people have is that success is tied to working hard, and that working hard guarantees success. Neither of those are true. They are possibilities, just not the only ones.

I seem to get into one of those circular reasoning loops when I try to think of promotion. For instance, I could create a blog and promote myself on it. But if I could figure out how to drive traffic to the blog, I could just as easily drive traffic to my art here, which would be easier because this site is very large and visible. If I could get people interested on social media, I wouldn't be trying to add friends and followers, I'd be bringing them to a place where I have something to offer. Why would I set up an additional step and lower the conversion rate for sales? If I knew what to do, I'd be doing it,

There are 2 ways that I know work to promote - popularity or money. Problem is, that excludes a lot of people, because popularity only works if a few people are - everyone can't be popular because then by definition no one would be. Money kind of works that way too.

I'm not asking for anyone else to promote me. I don't know how to do it myself all that well. Posting things on social media doesn't really do anything, unless someone reads them. Think about this - the competition on this site pales in comparison to that on social media platforms. A person is much more likely to sell a item that's found by chance in the search here, than for someone to even find a social media message from that person, let alone interact with it.

At the risk of people getting angry at me (again), no algorithm is anywhere near perfect. I'm sure that if artists try a lot of different ways to move themselves up in the list artificially, they'll do so. I could mention ways I know other people (artists and not) make themselves look better to algorithms, but I won't post them here - no sense in giving unscrupulous people any hints. I would be glad to share that info privately with someone from Fine Art America (not someone who sells on it).

Bottom line is it's usually easier to fool a computer program than it is to generate real sales and traffic, because computers are not people. Computers have no intuition.

Many of the best sellers on all kinds of sites do not participate in discussion boards. It is usually expected. Most of those active in the boards will be people having trouble selling. They're trying to promote, after all. (Discussion boards tend to not be the best place to do so).

And no, no sales in a long time, in case someone implies I said otherwise. I may not know what kind of promotion does work, but I sure know what doesn't.

No the sky's not falling. Can I guess how the search works? No. I do know for a fact that relying on the search to help you sell, on any website, is a big mistake.

Side note - can there be a different way of identifying those global brands? I can figure them out (usually), but it looks at first glance like people are selling someone else's intellectual property. - i.e. the recent sales shows a person's name selling a magazine cover, rather than the company.

 

Brandy Vasquez

6 Years Ago

I would like to tell you how much I appreciate helpful advise. I don’t have any experience selling but I have plenty experience making my art. Thank you for your advice. I am going to put them to work.

 

Buddy Mays

6 Years Ago

I would certainly take a more active part in discussions but I learned a long time ago that no matter what I say, or advise, or even mention in passing--and I've been in this business of photography for more than 40 years as a full-time professional--there are always a couple of people (every discussion page on every website on the web has them) who have a "I know more about everything than you do" attitude, and their behavior is often bullying and boring. They get tiresome after awhile and because of them I've just stopped taking part in most discussions. I wish it weren't so.

 

John Crothers

6 Years Ago

I have been gone for awhile, but I let me membership renew every year because $30.00 a year is by FAR the cheapest option I found for selling my photographs (I used to do art shows and even owned my own store for 1 1/2 years). I had a decent last couple months here on FAA and, to be honest, I haven't done anything to "promote" my work. But now if I sell more than $30.00 a year I am successful.

Back when I was active here, I started a thread titled "You WILL fail". It was probably the thread I started that had the most comments. LOTS of comments and opinions.

My point was that I have noticed, in the art world, is that most artist seem to want to be supportive and nice and helpful. The thing is, most artist don't BUY art. Few people can make a living making art, fewer will make a living selling art to artist.

The truth is the VAST majority of people that try to make a living selling art will FAIL to do that. It is a saturated, competitive market. There is only so much wall space and money to go around. Sure, you have to get in front of buyers and FAA is the best option I have found BUT like Sean said above there are over half a MILLION people here. Imagine an art show with 500,000 tents set up selling their work. You think everyone that goes to that show will 1) find you 2) buy something from you. Not very likely.

So you probably WILL fail. Accept it, deal with it. It doesn't necessarily mean your art is no good. It is a hard business to make a living in. But your lack of sales is not the fault of FAA, even if it is an easy target to blame. You are free to sell your art in other venues on the internet or in real life. I can tell you from experience art shows will cost you $200.00 - $600.00 for a weekend (that is 20 years of FAA membership) and don't even get me started on the cost of starting your own brick and mortar store. Sure, you could sell on your very own website dedicated just to you and you will not be competing with anyone else, but your chance of being seen by a buyer are pretty slim because if you think there are a lot of people selling here, there are probably 5 times more individual artist websites on the internet. Plus if you sell on your own website YOU have to frame and ship everything and you don't want that hassle!

So ignore all your friends on family on Facebook telling you how good your work is (how much stuff do they BUY?) You WILL fail. Your stuff isn't standing out from the crowd. I have a few hundred images uploaded here and I probably have 20 that sell well (here and in real life). I keep the others on here because I am too lazy to take them off and "you never know..right".

So after 5 years of seriously trying to make a living selling art, I am working at a bank, making a decent, steady income with health and dental insurance and a good 401k plan. That was NOT going to happen in art. That doesn't mean I can't sell things, I just understand it is not going to be my JOB. Money I make from my photographs will be "fun money". What is wrong with that? Once you start doing something as a job it loses some of that fun and what is the point of making art if you can't have fun doing it.

So anyone that blames others for their lack of success in the art world just can't admit they are going to fail. Blaming it on this site is just an excuse for avoiding the reality.

 

Chuck Staley

6 Years Ago

Whew!

 

Anthony Cox

6 Years Ago

I am new to Fine Arts America. I assumed it was a free service, but now I see that the free service is limited to 25 images. If you want to upload any more, there is a $30.00 annual fee, which includes other things, but the 25 image limit is the hook. Since you have over 500,000 artists, and at only 25 images each, that would be over 10 million minimum, and probably that is way too low, the odds of selling anything with only 25 images (assuming all images have the same demand, which of course, they do not), is extremely low. So before I buy a premium membership, I have a few questions.

Is this really an MLM?
What percentage of the free members gross over $30 a year from this service?
What percentage of the premium members gross over $30 a year from this service?

 

We do not give out statistics.
Very few people are premium members overall.
You can see exactly what you get on the membership page, as I see you've found. It's really up to individuals if they want to upload more images.
We have good sellers with 10 or less images. Premium memberships have nothing to do with it really. It's how you market those 10 images

 

Susan E Turner

6 Years Ago

Thank you for your post. I'm a new artist here. I have posted some of my work but I also want and need to learn. Just like what you were talking about. Actually, this is the very first post I have read in the Discussions. I'm glad it was because now I know what to think if I ever read some of those negative comments. Thank you so much

 

Anthony Cox

6 Years Ago

Thank you Abbie. I am not sure why your corporation does not give out statistics which would help your sellers know more about buying a premium membership. I checked your corporate headquarters, the address posted here is 2415 N GENEVA TER; CHICAGO IL 60614. The BBB website has tried to contact you there but the address is not deliverable. I will send a letter and see what happens. I looked up the address and it is a mail delivery service, not really a corporate office. I checked with the Chicago Secretary of state, and there is no corporation incorporated in Chicago as a domestic or foreign corporation with the name Fine Art America. There is such a company in California by that name, but since the website states your corporation is in Illinois, I just do not know. I did not find it on any stock exchanges either. Is it a public corporation? What state are you incorporated in? Where is your real corporate address?

 

Susan E Turner

6 Years Ago

WOW!

 

Name: Sean Broihier and Associates, LLC (dba Fine Art America)
Address: 1450 Second Street, Santa Monica, CA 90401

Tax ID: 26-0763011

The site is owned, programmed and run by one person. Named above.

Premium accounts are as stated on the membership page but are a very small part of the site. The main reason people get them is to upload more than 25 images. If you do not require more space for your images, or do not require a shopping widget or site with just yourself on the search, you do not need a premium account.

 

Anthony Cox

6 Years Ago

So Fine Arts America, is not a corporation, the corporate address is not really in Chicago, and it is not registered as a foreign corporation or LLC, in Illinois, or in my state of Florida. That level of deception and lack of business ethics defies belief. I will remove my images from your service. I am certainly glad I did not give any of my financial information. I thought it all sounded too good to be true.

 

Behind the Scenes. Close account

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

anthony this is a small store, a print on demand that handles the orders. you won't find that much info on it, or really any other online place. you sure won't find them on the stock exchange. the site is pretty up front with everything, stats would be nice, but no site really gives stats. i can only assume your new to the POD world, its wise to investigate a company, but to the level of being a private eye, i think is a bit much. if the site was not legit, you would have heard about it by now, as many people shop here.

i've been on sites that were scams, they are not sites any more.

i've been on sites that stole money from artists, they were caught and had to pay it back.

eventually stuff like that catches up everyone, there are so any eyes looking at things, when there is a new feature, they often catch it before the rest of the staff does. if there was something really fishy going on, it would be noticed, and there hasn't been any.

but its up to you not to distribute anything. i think you'll find you'll be very guarded online. since there are lots of companies that don't fit that search you did.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Yes, very good information. Thank you for all your work.

 

Nadya Chirik

6 Years Ago


Sean McDunn Thanks for the article.

 

Paul Douglas

6 Years Ago

Thanks for the info. It helped a lot. I was wondering why my sales plummeted last year from 1 in 2017 to zero in 2018! Good thing I'm not trying to make a living at this.I think I joined FAA around 2014 or so and in all those years I've sold maybe 4 images. I don't blame you people. If blame goes to anyone, it should be to the person who produces the artwork. What is he or she doing to promote themselves? My online footprint is pretty insignificant. I concentrate on the part I enjoy; making pretty pictures. If I happen to sell one, so much the better.

 

JAY SIGAL

5 Years Ago

As a new Premium Subscriber ... it comes as a surprise to read the information on paid vs free accounts. This is my first venture of this type and my spirits were a bit higher before reading the entirety of the content. Enlightening to be sure. Reality checks have a tendency to do that. Nonetheless, I will continue to make my images ... and make every effort to perfect them to my own subjective eye ... and trust God to direct those appreciative of my efforts to purchase one or more of those images ... and recommend me to others.

Of course ... ongoing and unashamed self-promotional efforts are an understood and necessary piece of the success process, and probably as challenging to manage into ones favour as that required to create an appealing work of art in the first place.

This ebb and flow experienced during the hard work to sell ones art as written here ... reminds me of distance sailing where there may be days and days of relative boredom ... punctuated by moments of sheer terror. The challenge is keeping hold of the tiller in the midst of the squalls, whilst reaching into the wind that fills the creative sails ... making sure that no matter what else happens, you have to keep the shiny side above the water line, and continue creating the possibility of success.

Strictly as a technological observation, the servers for this site do seem to be rather slow.

MGBJAY

 

Chuck Staley

5 Years Ago

I compare it to fishing... You drop the line and hope for the best.

 

Trilby Cole

5 Years Ago


Thanks Sean McDunn, for such great information.

 

Edward Fielding

5 Years Ago

You can ice fish with one line and an empty hook.

Or a bunch of holes and offer the most tantalizing bait around.

You can just drop it in a spot where the fish never see it.

Or you can jiggle it around to attract attention.

Once you get a fish, the excitement of them thrashing around attracts more fish to see what the commotion is all about.

 

Susan Sligh

5 Years Ago

Thanks for this forum. I feel like as a new photographer this has been the most helpful site as a resource. For me this far, it isn’t just about selling (while that would be awesome) it’s also about the knowledge I can also acquire from other successful artists.

 

Helmut Urrutia

5 Years Ago

FAA is great, I also use saatchiart.com/hemitheartist, anyone else does the same?

 

Sharon Mau

5 Years Ago

. . aloha sean . . wonderful to hear from you . . thank you so much for all you do for us . . .



​. . ☆ . . mālama . . . . . . . . . ☆ . .


sharon mau
https://sharon-mau.pixels.com

 

Sam Persons

5 Years Ago

Thank you very much for all the info Sean. Made 3 sales this last week, have been a member since 2011, and really appreciate all this site does.

 

the beginning of this post said about top seller not using the discussions.
Is there a page that shows the top sellers?
and is there a way to find out where we stand in sellers rankings?
and if not - why not? it would be a great promo piece for sellers.

 

Mike Savad

5 Years Ago

the top people are out selling their wares.
there are no pages showing that
and there is no rank
because its none of anyone's business who is the leader and not. the only thing it would do is allow people not selling well to copy what the sellers have, and the rank i would imagine would vary a lot as they go up and down. also would it really help you to know the best people might be stock sellers that sell 100,000 or more images?


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Darryl Brooks

5 Years Ago

Thank you very much for this. I've been on FAA for a while, but I'm trying to get more active with this sector of my market and this article was very helpful.

 

Patty Donoghue

5 Years Ago

Hi Sean, I am excited about the new things I find on FAA. I would love to hear more about what may be in the strategic plan for 2019, especially as it may relate to attracting interior designers or retailers to our work. Is there anything we can do to specifically attract this market? Thanks Sean. best wishes.

 

Agatha Wijdeveld

5 Years Ago

Thank you Sean for this information and clarity. As a newbie to FAA I find your post very useful. And I am fully aware of the fact that we need to put a lot of time and energy into promoting ourselves as artists and our art. There are a number of features that I especially like about FAA over another site I have a few art works on, and others I have looked at! At some point down the track I will write a short post on these features.
And, as a newbie, with as yet only a few artworks uploaded, more to follow soon, I feel heartened to read Abbie’s comment that even artists with 10 or less art works in their galleries are good sellers. Thanks again and I am excited about being a part of the FAA community :-)

 

Karin McCombe Jones

5 Years Ago

Appreciated this information. Thank you Sean.

 

Danielle Geelen

5 Years Ago

Great info :) It's motivating.

 

Erin Priddy

5 Years Ago

Thank you for sharing this information. This is my first time visiting the discussion forums, so for this very informative piece to be the first I come across truly helps. Thank you.

 

Sandi Kroll

5 Years Ago

Thanks for this info, Sean. I've been on FAA for a year now, and have made a few of sales. Just out of curiosity, if you are going to highlight/promote an artist in any way, do you let the artist know?

 

Sandi, most times, yes.. They are dropped an email

 

Joseph C Hinson

5 Years Ago

I went to a discussion that I was about to reply to, but then I saw it was a sales discussion. Frankly, it is nobodies doggone business if I made one sale last month or 20 sales. You're killing the discussion area with this poppycock. I love the site and, no, the sky is not falling as you put it in the OP. But this was an remains a dumb move.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

I can see no reason to complain about anything going on with this site - quite the opposite - somehow your site has introduced my work to people from all over the world and that is certainly a dream come true for a little boy who started photographing and created in the year 1958 and after snapping my very first photograph wondered to himself if anyone in the world would ever get to see his work - jump to today and people in areas of the world that I did not know existed way back then are at least looking - when I get a chance to understand what steps to take to market my work after uploading a bit of a more significant amount of my collection - then I would imagine that there might be some sales or I will be ready then to create some sort of a system to do such a job for me - until then thank you for all that you have created so far here at FAA it is all fantastic -

 

Cathy P Jones

5 Years Ago

Thank you Sean and Abbie and all the staff for your work on FAA. It must be an overwhelming task to keep up with all the wonderful artists on the site!

 

Karl Anderson

5 Years Ago

Bravo !

 

Don Northup

5 Years Ago

Thanks for the updated custom site design. Nice!

 

White Mountain Images

5 Years Ago

Thank you for all you do! FAA has been a blessing for my little business. And, first time for me clicking on the "discussions" tab :) :) :)

 

Welcome, Chris!

 

Erma L George

5 Years Ago

I have not been in this forum of discussions, rather I have been doing just what some of your suggestions are. I finally got a reply from an individual whom I queried independently and recently I received an inbox from FAA congradulting me. I have my own website that I pay for and I sent this company to my personal website so my question is how does FAA know about this communication? was my email communication on my personal website high jacked? by the way this was an wholesale inquiry.

Erma

 

See your contact link on your homepage here. They sent it through that.

 

Angelo Marcialis

5 Years Ago

Like anything else, you want something done? Be proactive, and take care of business yourself!

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

I have purchased and am reading or listening to a number of marketing books -

and perhaps if you were to read or listen to some of these you might perhaps get some ideas - however there is a lot of cynicism throughout what I have which indicates to me that in the actual advertising agencies that many of the large corporations utilize and pay great sums of money - not as much results are achieved and much if any is due more to luck as opposed to any scientifically produced results even when a person faced with what if referred to as the big brands - there is little in the way that the different brands are able to do to differentiate one brand from another I the mind of the consumer and in many more cases than would be imagined why or the motivation for one brand is chosen over another has very little to do with anything but the whim of the customer at any given moment -

but I will continue searching as I continue to place my images up on FAA - I have so far uploaded about 51,000 images and there are even more images created that I had before so I would estimate that I still have about 450,000 more to upload -

I have also from time to time check to see the visitors to my art and am noticing a great number people from new locations from around the world viewing so for me that is a very positive sign -

but as an artist my main focus continues to be to create more new and exciting art and to share that art with those who are interested in seeing it -

thank you!

Walter

 

Floyd Snyder

5 Years Ago

I would suggest that you keep reading.

Over the years I have worked with several national advertisers and quantifying the results were very often part of the contract.

The two easiest methods were couponing and telemarketing. Both outgoing and incoming.

One of my favorites was TOMA (not that Toma) polls. TOM: Top of the Mind Awareness

More difficult was focus groups before and after launching a campaign.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

here is a little information and perspectiveL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyTn_DgfcFE

 

Floyd Snyder

5 Years Ago

My perspective comes from being in the business for 40 years. I doubt one Youtube video is going to change it.

There are always going to be people out there that have figured out a way to make a fast buck playing the contrarian. You want to buy into that, then that is up to you.

You can take one or two approaches to anything, including life itselfe. You see the glass as half empty and sped your life looking for proof to support that position.

Or you can look at the glass as hlaf full and spend your life trying to find ways to prove it is and trying to fill the other half.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

and what do you say to this fellow with all of these facts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2NUayn2vP0&feature=share

 

Don Northup

5 Years Ago

I know of a lot of internet marketers that use target marketing on Facebook (and using the Facebook pixel) and many of those peeps make a killer return on investment.

They know what they are doing and it has nothing to do with luck. It has all to do with targeting and retargeting the right audiences and having pages that convert. Some of those guys could sell PDFs full of almost blank pages. They used to do even better before Facebook started cracking down on what you could do with apps and started eliminating certain ways to target potential markets.

Cheers

 

F A Print Shop

5 Years Ago

Interesting stuff,

Dave Bridburg
https://Bridburg.com

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

what I realize is that each individual here or in business each owner of a company or each different international organization has a very different viewpoint and goal as to what they want to accomplish as well as at what stage of their development or stage towards moving towards their unique goal so in such a discussion as this that we are engaged in here - there are much different understandings of different elements - remember that the original post mentioned that non of the top sellers engage in these discussions - and now most probably since Getty Images has joined the FAA family it is most probably that we might not see them commenting here or even catch a glimmer of their thoughts on what is being looked at here -

thanks for the perspective -

 

Floyd Snyder

5 Years Ago

"and what do you say to this fellow with all of these facts: "

I can not speak to his facts because, well, simply because they are "his" facts and I have no way of knowing where the "fact" starts and "opinion" or version of the fact kicks in.

I can only address what I know, what I have done and what my facts are.

As for Getty, they have been here for years and years. You need to go back and read that Getty thread where Abbie said that several times.

Also, keep in mind that Getty does a lot of advertising.

There are several large sellers here that are doing very well that I know personally, at least on a business basis because as a gallery owner and retailer I have been selling their work for years. I can tell you beyond a shadow a dought that they do advertise and their publishers advertsie for them an dealers like myself advertise for them.

And make sure you read Don Northup's post above because he is right on the money.

This is like the old argument of "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?".

I suggest you take a walk in the forest and look at a tree lying on the gorund. If you still think that tree fell without making a sound then you probaly should not invest in advertising.



 

Edward Fielding

5 Years Ago

51,000 images? Oh my, hopefully, they are ones that people want to buy.

No amount of marketing can make people buy art they don't like.

Unless you convince them that it's an investment of course.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

Edward - the word investment can mean many different things - something different to each investor -

of course there are the venues such as the Fine Art Group which has advisors - financial services as well as investment services -

there are people who feel that they are investing in themselves and their own well being when they purchase an item that they like and care about

and their are those who are interested in investing in artists as well as all of the above:

http://bebirian.faso.com/collections/98658

and perhaps there are other forms of investing related to art as well - such as for educational purposes

 

Let's take this conversation to it's own thread perhaps

 

Floyd Snyder

5 Years Ago

I agree Abbie and apologize for getting off topic.

I think Sean's post is one of the most important and informative posts on FAA.

I have an idea for you. Why not just take the original OP and put it in a stiky and no replys and then close and make it a sticky? May be even akk Must Read to the title.

Just an idea.

 

We do not mind people saying they've read it but we do not need long discussions that are better in their own threads.

You'll get more eyes on your discussions in new threads

 

Corinne Carroll

5 Years Ago

A good way to thank a helper is to promote their work when possible. Mike Savad, I really appreciate the help you've given, and I've promoted your work. Not as much recently, but this reminds me to do it.

 

Liesl Walsh

5 Years Ago

I appreciate all the info Sean wrote, thank you!

 

Variance Collections

5 Years Ago

Thnk you Sean

 

Cynthia Sheffield

5 Years Ago

Thank you Sean. I consider it a privilege to be able to display my art for anyone to see. You have done all the work for me. It allows me time to spend doing my art.

 

Bonnie Marie

5 Years Ago

Thank you Sean as a newbie since this summer so I’m not a new artist I guess I haven’t known what to expect and I don’t understand I’d like to learn to host contest some things that I don’t understand how to do them. I’m working on my own site and making it more user friendly, doing more blogs and things like that and I need to know how to do that here can you direct me somewhere to learn? I really appreciate your feedback and all that you do and now I understand a lot more after reading this thanks again! Bonnie Marie

 

Zsanan Studio

5 Years Ago

..indeed...persistence pays... thanks for that message

 

Mariam C

5 Years Ago

Thank You for the advice. I’m new to FAA and this was a positive read.

 

Anil Nene

5 Years Ago

This is very very useful indeed.
Creating art and selling it are two separate activities.
I have been spending an equal amount of time for both.
Then only I could garner some sales.
Thanks a lot!

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

ahh these two articles may help in the long run to understand something about the selling side of art:

https://news.artnet.com/market/defining-the-value-of-art-27673?fbclid=IwAR0uvnmR55RFcjcsGKipxK8hUUKOVh4cJ7QTxpWH8wV76FCEO4cZeQxv0d8#.XOtUKIeQ69M.facebook

https://blog.orangecarton.com/ever-thought-why-some-paintings-are-so-expensive-here-is-the-answer/?fbclid=IwAR092Vox2_OLntW4rhoMJRBdRRrehCjZHQcTLDmcXK35tmvT3YcmdT6Ir-o

the first article is by a man who has been in the art business for many years and the second has many different negative comments but who does not get loads of negative comments perhaps is not saying anything and touching some nerves now and then -

 

Aliceann Carlton

5 Years Ago

Thank you, Sean, for providing clarity in the operations of FAA. Both my husband and I have had online galleries here for years. We are immersed in multiple life issues and certainly acknowledge the marketing and promotion responsibility we need to create sales. While life swamps us in the meantime, we are glad to have an online gallery site where members and visitors can browse, have a few minutes to see parts of life we see as artists, and tuck a piece of creativity in the their minds.

We live 178 miles from the nearest city, and further still from the artist havens of Maine and NH where the network easily encompasses Boston. Our exposure through FAA is global. That is remarkable in itself.

Best regards,
Aliceann Carlton

 

Christopher Cook

5 Years Ago

I'm so impressed with the ton of invaluable information in this thread. I can't wait to start marketing!

 

Clyde J Kell

5 Years Ago

Can you believe this.. I've been a member of FAA for three years, and only TODAY

 

Carmen Macuga

5 Years Ago

Thank you so much Sean! I felt very secure choosing FAA, as I'm a retired teacher and teachers do research. I read all about the history. I read EVERY informative FAQ post. I literally spent weeks researching this site before I joined. That being said, there's still this huge learning curve to experience. I haven't sold anything yet, but I know I'm still struggling with promoting myself. I was following discussions that were bringing me down a bit, so I chose to stay away from them and continue to do all I could to push forward. I know I'll get there, but I'm just so glad you wrote this. It validates all I know to be true...it's mostly up to me...and FAA is there to assist.

 

Floyd Snyder

5 Years Ago

Bumping because I think it should be on the first page of the threads.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

if anyone is interested I have found a person that has a program to help with understanding and utilizing Instagram for artists

 

Over the years I've seen FAA's "successful artists" mentioned a lot, but I don't ever remember seeing it shown anywhere
"who" they are.

 

That is for them to say. A couple of them have popped in here and given us tips over the years.

JC Findley is very successful and has said many times he could live on what he makes here. Obviously I know this is true. The only reason I am mentioning him in particular is because he HAS said it in here himself. Otherwise it is a private matter and only the artist themselves can tell you if they are successful or not, not the site.

 

I too know some artists here that are making some pretty good money.

I know them because I interact with them regularly.

Might want to try that Paul.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

from a certain perspective - I think that it is the most amazing thing that I can post an image and then within a few days from that posting quite a few people from all different locations will have seen that image without much effort - although I do have some marketing programs going on - overall I have say that things have changed agreed deal from 61 years ago when I took my very first photograph and began to wonder if anyone in the world would every get to see that image - I was actually wondering about that before I even had that film developed - and now if people are interested they are able to see that very same image -


as far as selling - over the years - before FAA and Pixels - I have sold images as prints - photographs and abstracts - but I honestly cannot ever feeling that I really knew why a person purchased what they did - it is something I believe only they would know - and I think the only way to overcome the uncertainty is to do my best to make sure that as many people get to see the art as is possible - and of course what methods that I utilize to accomplish this fall into what feels comfortable for me and also what fits within a certain budget that I have allocated for such activities -

 

Susan McGillicuddy

5 Years Ago

I think it is important, not to sit back and let people get upset. It may seem to you that responding does not good. I disagree. The top sellers most likely wont share the advice that makes them successful because they want to remain top sellers. It would be helpful if people find out what top sellers do differently to make sales to post about it.

Thanks so much for this post!
Susan

 

Floyd Snyder

5 Years Ago

JC must be making a fortune! I would have to imagine that the cost of just the "snakebite" rider on is health insurance is more than my County Club bill.

 

James McCormack

5 Years Ago

I know three who sell well here who do not generally participate in the forums.

One does a lot of original work and markets locally, selling originals and prints.
Another produces huge amounts, markets loads, sells very well (apparently everywhere).
The third has a niche market and although I am not aware they do much marketing, I always assumed they market to that niche.

 

Robert Yaeger

5 Years Ago

This link to your open letter is an excellent read. (https://fineartamerica.com/why-every-artist-and-photographer-in-the-world-should-be-selling-on-fineartamerica.html )Thanks for sharing it.

 

Dianne L Gardner

5 Years Ago

Enjoy reading this. Thank you!

 

Cassi Moghan

5 Years Ago

Thank you so much for this. I have made it my goal to be more active in the forums and to spend time each day promoting myself. I'm totally new to selling but that's the goal! I want to be one of those 250 or so active artists :)

 

Renato Sensibile

5 Years Ago

Thanks for all the tips Sean.
I remember the line of a movie (can't remember which one, nor even the actors, sorry) where one of the main character say to the protagonist: the art merchant is the real artist.
You give us the chance to show our jobs.
The rest is up to us.
Thanks again.

 

Lesa Fine

5 Years Ago

Thanks Sean and Abbie for all you do. I’ve enjoyed my time with FAA and have found so much valuable info in the discussion threads. Thanks to all those who contribute and chime in to help all of us who may not have a great deal of marketing experience. I have sold numerous times on FAA and this year things have been better and I continue to be hopeful they will increase this year and next.

I enjoy the photography and the creation process of creating art rom what I shoot. People occasionally buy and I’m happy with that.

Wishing all on the site much continued success with their work. I appreciate all the help I can ASR’s from the site and am grateful too have access to it!

 

Thanks! Required reading for new comers?

 

Catherine Solovay

5 Years Ago

Definitely useful perspective, especially for a newbie like myself! Thank you for your candid discussion.

 

Laura-Lynn Greenberg

5 Years Ago

Excellent! Thank you very much.

 

Thomas Young

5 Years Ago

Thank you Sean and Abbie.

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

I was thinking the other day and then - pff

I came up with something in one of my dreams - *(they usually pay off for me -

somehow I got to comparing Entenmann's cakes cookies - pies and everything else that they have been selling for years to my images here up on Fine Art America - these products are available throughout the country to the local baker - who produces a limited about of products fresh and available to those that walk into the baker's shop -

the Entenmann's products are available in many many many different stores - shops grocery stores - drug stores - you name it you can find their products in many available places and the FAA and Pixel images are like that - available in all parts of the country and world and throughout anywhere there is an internet connection while galleries and museums and local art shows are viewable to a limited number of people - and in reality a totally different market - as far as I can tell -

 

Jean noel Le junter

5 Years Ago

I don't know if it's the right place to write this ...
I keep receiving regularly messages from fineart america and when I try to read them I get the following mention:'You are not authorized to view this message.' So why send them? ):

Jean-Noël Le Junter

 

Walter Paul Bebirian

5 Years Ago

Joel - have you logged into your account -?

 

Since our last communication, there have been significant developments in our advertising strategies, particularly with Google and retail partnerships, which were not fully utilised previously. All giving artists further promotion.

The platform remains dedicated to providing artists with a print site where they can operate independently. You have the autonomy to set your own prices, advertise your work, and manage your own marketing strategies.

It's worth noting that opting out of discount options or Google advertising may affect your visibility in relevant searches where these features are active. Similarly, not participating in our licensing programme means your work will not be promoted on that platform.

Despite the growth in our community, our commitment to providing a supportive print ready site for artists to thrive remains unchanged.

I will leave this open for a short while but please read the DISCUSSION RULES before getting involved and read the top post in its entirety

Abbie
------------------
Manager
Fine Art America | Pixels
Manchester, UK | Santa Monica, CA

 

Lucia Waterson

6 Months Ago

A super super thank you for all the work involved, both Sean and Abbie!

 

Jessica Jenney

6 Months Ago

How does the public find the licensing site?

I see it now on Google!

 

We get a lot of people finding it, artists and buyers. So it must be advertised. But yes, we as artists need to advertise ourselves on it also

 

Tina LeCour

6 Months Ago

Thank you so much Sean and Abbie for all you do, anyone who speaks negative about this site isn't doing themselves or the site any justice, it only hurts us instead of buidling us up. I understand when people don't make sales it can be frustrating but the solution isn't to moan to complain, you have to look at yourself and say what am I doing?, maybe I need to change something. I know this from my own experience, art and styles keep evolving and if people don't stay current and look into that I think they can fall behind very easily but blaming this site isn't the answer, it only harms us. I cringe when I see all the negativity and even a not so good review on the sales page because it doesn't hurt just that artist it hurts us all. This is a wonderful site and I'm so happy to be here and be part of this journey! Thanks again Sean and Abbie for everything!

 

Joseph S Giacalone

6 Months Ago

Thanks for the re-post.

 

John Hughes

6 Months Ago

I agree with Tina.
Both Sean and Abbie deserve the highest praise for all the work they do on the site and for all of us. There will always be those who wish to bring negativity to the site but more often than not the problem starts with them and their lack of understanding or not actually reading how the site works. We are very fortunate to have such a wonderful site and all for a bargain price.

 

L A Feldstein

6 Months Ago

Thank you!

 

Drew

6 Months Ago

"It's worth noting that opting out of discount options or Google advertising may affect your visibility in relevant searches where these features are active."

So, it would be better to not opt out of discount options but mark up and leave ones prices inflated to offset discounts leveraging FAA's targeted market strategy without additional advertising costs.

 

Jessica Jenney

6 Months Ago

For me, being true to myself and my own vision is worth more than sales. and every sale is worth more to me for the same reason.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Months Ago

Marking up your products when offering a 50% or 20% discount could end up overcharging customers who pay the regular price. In the end, it might cost you more money than if you simply absorbed the discount.

When 30% of your sales are made at a discounted price, the remaining 70% of customers who paid full price end up being overcharged. I find this to be disingenuous.

One way of approaching it is to mark up all your products 5% or so. When these discount programs first came out for a long while after, I tracked the data to come up with a % of markup to recoup the discount.

I concluded that no adjustment was necessary and decided just to absorb the discounts.

 

Sean, you've created and grown a fantastic company, hiring great staff such as Abbie & the others.

FAA is the best place for artists online and I thank you.

I enjoyed & learned a lot when you participated in this forum back in the day, and I still learn from all the wonderful members' sharing here.

Great site, Sean!

 

Shelli Fitzpatrick

6 Months Ago

I am not a big seller (yet) but when it comes to big name art sites this is the one I want ,my name to be associated with. I have made some sales and at least half of them had nothing to do with my own promotions so I know from experience that an unknown artist can get found on the site with the right SEO. I also think the premium site we get here is a great value for the money.

 

VIVA ANDERSON

6 Months Ago

Happy to have this opportunity to say, again........Thank you ,. Sean; thank you, Abbie ....still and always, relevant !!

 

Carlos Amaro

6 Months Ago

Thanks Sean for the update, although my sales are very minimal, my primary objective is to showcase my artwork and not sales. However, with that said, any sales that do come in are icing on the cake.:) The sales that came in were and have been without my active engagement in social media. I appreciate having this platform for my artwork and your team´s professional support.

 

Hugh Warren

6 Months Ago

Great to read - thanks for reposting.

 

David Smith

6 Months Ago

"Similarly, not participating in our licensing programme means your work will not be promoted on that platform."

Can we get a clarification on this.

Does not participating in licensing affect promotion of prints or products?

 

Chad Meyer

6 Months Ago

Good re-read. This was one of the first threads I read when I joined in 2020. I have made a few observations over the years about it but I'm going to keep that to myself and focus more on promoting

 

Sebastian Musial

6 Months Ago

@david, yes, I would like to know the explanation for this one as well.

I'm in all programs and have been since the start, except for the licensing program.

 

Jessica Jenney

6 Months Ago

"not participating in our licensing program means your work will not be promoted on THAT platform."

It's clear that means the licensing site platform, which is not a POD site. Nothing to do with FAA site.

 

Floyd Snyder

6 Months Ago

I am in the licensing program but have only had maybe 4-5 deals through FAA. However, I have had several where they contacted me directly, which makes it well worth the effort to be in the program.

I am all in on everything FAA does, and I can't think of any program where I have not made at least a little money.

 

Thank you Jessica. Exactly.

 

Douglas Settle

6 Months Ago

Appreciate the info. Steady forward.

 

Bumping this up

 

F A Print Shop

6 Months Ago

Good information, thanks all.

 

Ros Turner

6 Months Ago

Thank you, great information from the original post and all the replies.

 

Amber Lee

6 Months Ago

Glad I came across this post/group. Interesting read. I will follow. Thanks for posting it. Informative Post. :) Keep up the good work.

 

Amber Lee

6 Months Ago

May I ask what the "Licensing Program" is or could you point me in the right direction for that information? I am new to FAA and just trying to find my way around and figure out what's what and what's where, I would appreciate any assistance. Thanks so much

 

David Smith

6 Months Ago

Amber

It looks like your work is all AI generated, so probably not a good candidate for licensing given the current ambiguity around the copyright status of AI generated images.

 

Licensing AI-generated images can be legally ambiguous. Since these images lack copyright protection, the concept of licensing them is not straightforward. You can't grant exclusive rights to something you don't own the copyright to, so traditional licensing models may not apply.

Even though AI images lack traditional copyright, you could still assert moral rights or similar claims, depending on the jurisdiction. This is less about legal enforceability and more about setting expectations for how the images can be used. Good luck researching what would be legal in this instance and you would have to use custom licenses (we have those available)

If you choose to license AI-generated images, make it clear in your terms that the images are not protected by copyright, and that the license is more about controlling usage rather than conferring legal ownership. If you intend to distribute AI-generated images under a licensing model, it may be wise to consult with a legal expert to draft clear, enforceable agreements that reflect the unique nature of AI-generated content.

Since the legal framework is still evolving, it’s important to stay informed and seek professional advice when necessary.

Abbie
------------------
Abbie Shores
Manager
Fine Art America | Pixels.com
Manchester, UK | Santa Monica, CA

 

Shelli Fitzpatrick

6 Months Ago

Would love to see an updated version of the "kick start your sales" article Sean referred to where the page is now missing. Thanks!

 

Tony Morgan

5 Months Ago

I have been with FAA for about three years now and have really enjoyed it. So far I have heard form other artist with very positive comments. I guess after retirement of being an entertainment design artist for the better part of 50 years i wanted to display my work on this and other social sites. So far i have set my goals rather low in fact I tell myself if I can make enough to cover the FAA fees this year Im good. And so far I have. I get busy painting and other projects that I drift away form my social platforms and Im going to try to be more proactive this year. Wish me luck!

 

This discussion is closed.