Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras From Nikon And Canon

I think it's an exciting development. I'm not ready to plunk cash down yet for a mirrorless system but I find them intriguing.

https://www.canonwatch.com/canons-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-set-to-be-announced-in-2018-cw4/

I'm due for a new camera soon. I'll probably wait to see how things shake out. I have a collection of Canon lenses that I don't want to give up. Looks like Nikon will have one out first.

Lenses, yeah, that's what makes the switch hard. Rather, pricey...

Bad news for Sony. Professional users find their product not to stand up well to the grind. Both Canon and Nikon FF mirror less will have superior resolution and ISO range.

I have no need at all to rush out and procure a Nikon copy, I’m well established with my gear at this point. They do have an adapter to fit their current lineup of professional lenses, which is critical.

I think it’s exciting news for both canon and Nikon users.

I think this is great news! I'm a Canon user and will probably want to switch to mirrorless at some point.

Nikon has released a teaser video. No doubt hoping buyers will wait for their offering instead of buying a Sony.

Amazing how the watchers try to analysis and guess what the new camera will have for features based on a shadowy video of a mockup.

I know a product designer who makes mockups for consumer electronics shows. Most of the time they are just made out of Styrofoam.

https://petapixel.com/2018/07/23/this-is-the-first-teaser-for-nikons-new-mirrorless-camera/

Canon will likely come out with a new set of lens for their full-frame mirrorless as it is my understanding the current EF lenses won't work without an adapter. This IMO is bad for those of us who have spent a bunch in the L-series glass.

Nikon is a little late to town on this, Sony has a pro mirroless camera out for several years now. The Sony sensor will be in the new Nikon mirror less camera for Nikon so unless it can deliver something better than what we have we will stiick with the Sony for our drone. We use Nikon and Sony camera and have been using the Sony mirroless on our drone for several years now and it is super little camera at 42 megapixles. We have found it to be as good as the Nikon, but like most of you we have a lot of Nikon lenses so we still continue to use our Nikon for a lot of ground shots at least for a while longer. I also would not jump on the first version of the Nikon or Cannon I would wait till it has proven.itself. We have bought three sonys mirror less cameras and the first version had some issues!

From what I read, the Nikon FF mirrorless will have a new mount, so you'll have to get an adaptor to use your current lenses.

I'm still peeved at Nikon for not including women testers in the launch of their last pro camera, so I will continue to stick with Fuji. I left Nikon several years ago.

Mirrorless is great. What isn't great is seeing the camera makers abandoning everything but high-end "full frame". They've surrendered to smartphones and think their remaining market is pros, guys who want to be pros, and well-off 'enthusiasts' - and the real money is in big, overpriced boutique lenses. Naturally, all these people want more megapixels, and then more after that. They're now calling 42mp "high resolution" 24mp is now "low resolution. And of course more and more video hoo-ha, used mainly for making 30 minute 4K videos about cameras and gear, that no one ever sits through.

They're all abandoning the APS-C format, which is what I use. Nikon, incredibly, has stopped talking about DX, which has a huge user base, their are countless DX lenses out there. Sony hasn't advanced their APS-C sensor performance in 5 years.

I have no use at all for 42mp. Couldn't even upload the files to FAA without setting JPG quality to rock bottom. Couldn't sell prints bigger than what I sell now (when I actually do sell something).

I want to see sensor technology advance; I don't just want bigger cameras with bigger numbers and bigger lenses.

Agree with holding off on the first Canon and Nikon FF mirrorless as they will likely be on a bit of a learning curve and have kinks to work out.

Canon will also require an adaptor to use the current lenses which is not appealing to me. If money grew on trees I would just run out and by new ones but as it is now I would have to sell what I currently have to buy new.

Bottom line is we have gotten so caught up on always thinking we need the next and best thing we forget people have been creating great images for years with far less.

Mary Lee, I looked that up. Nikon said it did invite women photographers, but they were unable to attend. Interesting. I wouldn't shun a brand over something like that, though. Just write to Nikon and let your feelings be known.

My first serious camera was a Sony mirrorless, so I don't know any different. Now that I'm used to Sony, I'll probably stick with it when upgrading.

One complaint from pros on the Sony line was in terms of ergonomics. Will be interesting to see if Nikon and Canon bring out beefier grips. It's not all about small size.

I know in the past, using my Panasonic mirrorless it never felt good in my hands.

Edward, thanks for sharing the news .. I'm excited to update my recent Nikon camera.

But firstly, I think I should wait and see what people think about it.

Sony has actually seemed to disdain style and ergonomics. My a6300 has neither. I think it's a deliberate decision - they wanted to look like their focus was all on new technology.

Nikon's ergonomics have a lot of history and it's hard to come up with something that's as good, yet somehow noticeably different.

if its as good as my current camera i want one, mostly for weight reduction. and hoping i can use the other lenses canon has. if they reduce things, then nah.

i want a lighter camera with more versatility. but i'd have to wait, i haven't finished with the one i have now.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

Yea the Sony doesn't have the same feel of the Nikons and there are things I don't like about the Sony like the menu selections, but it takes excellent pictures so it depend on what you use it for. We use it for our drone and street photography mostly. Its not just the megapixels its all the other things they put in the cameras to improve the overall resolution quality that makes the difference in cameras for us.

Bottom line, Sony mirrorless has bee selling well, and Nikon has to get into the game.

As someone who sells cameras and uses them extensively to make my living as an artist, I don't understand the obsession with mirrorless. Yes there are some advantages, but there are also some disadvantages as well. And the one thing everyone points to- size and weight- goes away as soon as you add a full frame sensor and a decent lens that can cover the sensor. So what's the point? I own a Fuji system as well. It makes sense because Fuji doesn't do full frame. Therefore, the lenses can be smaller and the overall package is smaller and lighter. The A7III with a 16-35 f/4 is every bit as big as my D810 with the same lens.

I think the mirrorless fullframe camera is going to fly big time. Less weight is a big deal for me, larger resolution and more light. Even if it hopefully turns out to be the same weight as my crop steel case DSLR. I would want it with steel casing. The full frames that are not mirrorless with steel casing are just too heavy.

any weight i can remove from my bag or arm is welcome. my current system with lens is i think about 5 lbs, add a flash and its more. its like carrying and shooting with a bowling ball. and its not even the biggest one. so if i can reduce that, it would be nice. but it would really have to be a big difference.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

The EVF is huge. So are the size and weight advantages of mirrorless APS-C. Unfortunately, over-the-top "full frame" hype has led camera makers to abandon APS-C, at least for the present.

Photography is a unique technology market - the only one where so many people do NOT prefer smaller, lighter products.

Suzanne, no camera on the market today is made with steel. At the upper ends, they are magnesium alloy. Mid range, magnesium alloy and aluminum. Low end, aluminum and plastic.

If you want size and weight savings, I highly recommend Fuji.

Yes Fuji is serious about APS-C and has a great line. But I think they use Sony sensors, so if Sony chooses to neglect APS-C I don't know what Fuji does.

I do like the look of Fuji cameras.

Glad I’m not the only one. Certainly not saying mirrorless isn’t a viable form factor, but this nonsense about it being revolutionary or “game changing” is ridiculous.
I’ve used the Sony A7 series in the store with one of their 24-70 G master lenses. It’s difficult to hold. The body is too small and the lens is huge. I don’t see the point. Never mind the fact that Sony's menus are convoluted messes. Can’t argue with the image quality tho.

The biggest advantage I see is a higher shutter speed for flash. For my indoor hdr work that takes away the 1/250 limit which is really useful for real estate photography work when you want to use an outdoor exposure for a window view but still want some fill light inside.I know a lot of bird photographers use flash for fill light outdoors and so do portrait photographers. I use a flash extender to get enough reach for birds and at least put a little gleam in the eye. We shall see in a few days how the new Nikon mirrorless compares to the DSLRs for flash sync speed.

The DSLR and mirrorless that are like DSLRs (same attributes basically) have a larger sensor that is top quality (more color data stored on the sensor which means more color shades the image looks more 3D and more color in the image in general). The best point and shoots probably have the same top quality sensor just smaller. The smaller less quality sensors are harder to work with and less flexible in editing because of less color shading, more blocky color which translates into loss of detail. It's all about the details. Now that I have DSLR quality I don't want to go back to a lessor sensor. You can really tell the difference in the editing because you can't nuance big blocks of color.

Thanks, Rick, for the explanation!

Rick, there is not much point in putting a high res sensor on a camera or an expensive 100 mp rated lens on one, if the shots are degraded by shutter shake and mirror slap. Canon and Nikon also do not do in-camera stabilization. Go figure! The camera makers know this. They are conceding the point!

Sounds like the pre-production Nikon model handed out to reviewers has some issues:

First look at the Canon mirror less -

As a street photographer I sometimes walk around for up to 10 hours a day shooting so camera weight is a significant factor. I've already experienced some negative physical effects so I started looking at a mirrorless system. When I heard Nikon and Canon were coming out with full frame mirrorless cameras I was excited and decided to wait for their release and specifications. But after looking at everything I'm going to go with the Sony a7 iii. It has everything I need and it weighs one third less than my Canon 6d 24/105 combo. It was released around April 2018 and at this writing is still sold out in Toronto and New York 5 months later. That tells me everything I need to know about how good it is. The people have spoken.

Don't Panasonic and Zeiss count for anything? I suspect that the Zeiss full framer will be out if my price range, but I am interested in what Panasonic brings to the full frame game. Can Olympus be far behind? Everyone is doing it!

Sigma and Tamron have been working with different mounts for lenses anyway. Why not make third party bodies that allow you to choose a mount?

Robert Potts

Zeiss?

Are you thinking of Leica perhaps?

Zeiss makes lenses, but no cameras, unless you know about something on the way.

Late to answer this, but Robert Potts, I've been using lenses with image stabilization for years. Virtually every lens I own has this. Tell me why I must have it in the body? Truth be told, there are MANY advantages to optical image stabilization. And I can't think of a single time the mirror slap ruined an image for me. 27 years of photography.

That out of the way, I had the opportunity to use the Nikon Z7 this week, briefly. Color me impressed. Is it revolutionary? No. Game-changing? Not particularly. But it is an excellent camera. It is thoroughly Nikon. The menus are just like my D850. The feel is solid. The screen is gorgeous. The EVF, as far as they go, is outstanding. Image quality as well is excellent. The really exciting part of this whole thing though is something most people overlook. The new lens mount. It will enable Nikon to really push the limits of lens engineering and design. The two new lenses I saw- the 24-70 f4 and the 35mm f/1.8 were tack sharp. Not much smaller or lighter than their F mount counterparts however, so again, I question the size and weight savings people keep shouting about.

Will I get one? Eventually, as long as my work continues to sell here and I continue to see growth in sales. It'll make a nice smaller counterpart to my D850 body.

IBIS stabilizes the image by moving the sensor, which lets it do more than what can be done in the lens - faster and better, on more axes.

Here is your Panasonic entry - dropping at the end of September:

https://petapixel.com/2018/09/01/panasonic-to-unveil-a-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-on-sept-25-report/


Sony has will have three new competitors in this space - Panasonic, Canon and Nikon.

Zeiss might just be getting ready to just back into the camera market - https://petapixel.com/2018/08/24/zeiss-is-teasing-a-new-camera-rumors-say-its-a-fixed-lens-full-frame/

The Zeiss is on the rumor sites. Folks believe it will resemble the Sony RX1 version II.

First looks at the Canon EOS R

https://www.engadget.com/2018/09/05/canon-eos-r-full-frame-mirrorless-camera/

Looks good except it is a boat load of money. I'm not too concerned about video - every time I try to edit in 4K my computer creaks along and then you upload to YouTube and they compress it anyway.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/canon-launches-r-mirrorless-system-with-spectacular-glass?utm_medium=Email%201690899&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Canon%20180905&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=learn-more&encEmail=B6C4066E70899FD342654FB6A3798F78991F70A961A317062E61C88EBFAC6B24


here's another... you need special lenses to make that thing work. i was really hoping that i could use my old lenses... nope. so i guess that's a big no on that one. unless they make a converter which i doubt.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

There are adapters so all legacy lenses will work. There are even adapters with ND filters and circular polarizers.

"The three new EF to RS lens adapters, meanwhile, will let you use any EF and even EF-S lenses (with a crop on the latter) with no loss in quality. You'll also get full autofocus, stabilization and metering capabilities, so you won't be left in the lurch if you already have a lot of Canon glass. Canon also introduced a lens adapters for drop in neutral density and other filters, and another with a control ring much like the one on the new RF lenses. All of those will let you use EF and EF-S lenses exactly as if they're on a 5D Mark IV or other DSLR, Canon promised."

Typical Canon to overcomplicate something as simple as a lens adapter. Having worked for Canon USA for seven years I am not surprised. I'm also not impressed. Canon has no direction right now. They essentially have 4 different camera lines on the ILC market- Full frame EOS, APS-C EOS, EOS-M, and now EOS R. And not one of them really screams "I'M THE ONE!" As someone in camera sales now, it just muddies the water when a customer comes in and asks "what camera should I get? My friend says get a Canon!"

if they had the lens i use - i would switch to pentax. features, price etc, its better than a canon. i'm with canon because i have lenses flashes etc.

there are certain things i don't like about the canon. limitations they put into the camera for no reason at all. like restricting the flash to iso 400 when its on anything other than P. and even with P it stops at iso 1600 i recall. so i have to waste settings forcing the flash to go higher. even with my new camera, it does this. super annoying.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

The lens adapters are brilliant. Three more accessories to sell. The gadget guys will go nuts - more things to buy.

Any limitations are created so they don't cannibalized their own product line. They have a full line of cameras, each aimed at a different segment of the market. No different than a large car company.

Been reading about this and, in theory it seems like a good idea. My e mail has several invitations to "Gala Events" locally even including a bus trip to New York, etc, for the unveiling. I think the parting of the Red Sea has moved to Page 2. As expensive as the pre-release prices seem to be, I think I will be waiting for a while. Even with the camera I already have print and display seem to be the weak links in the process, so adding some spec improvements to the original file probably won't make much difference to anybody but the bean counters at Nikon and Canon. I think I will leave the early glory days to the equipment geeks. I actually thought about jumping on the Bolt Bus (cheaper) and going to New York, just for the amusement of listening to a collective gasp and cheer by the faithful when the cover comes off the new cameras, but I was afraid that all the adrenaline would give me palpitations. I might go to the local event a few days later and save New York for some actual shooting.

Doug, the best ticket was the free trip to Maui given to the camera press and online influencers for the unveiling.

I'd definitely take THAT one. I might be surfing when the unveiling happens, but so it goes.

We have a local presentation on the new mirrorless hardware coming up on Thursday at a local brewery down the street from me in Baltimore. It's a lot quicker and easier than going to New York, so I'm going to attend the local one and save New York for a different occasion. I don't have any current intention of buying one, but I'm at least curious, so, I will report back.

Well, I saw them yesterday, "Mirrorless Reinvented", "a new benchmark in optical performance". My local photo store, Service Photo, invited Nikon to do a show and tell at a local Baltimore brewery (Union Craft) near their store. With food and beer available in the same space, a lot of people turned out, not sure whether it was for the beer or the cameras because it was a minority of the group that seemed to be interested in the cameras. Nevertheless, I held one in my hand briefly, found it to have a pleasing heft and a lot of nice features. It's configured like a DSLR with a fold out screen and a conventional eyepiece viewer. The image quality in the eyepiece is remarkable, much better than the mirrored-prism image in a conventional DSLR. They sell an adapter so you can use older F lenses along with the new Z lenses. It's meant to be somewhat water resistant, so rainy photos should be possible without any special cover as long as you don't completely soak the thing. I have a heavy, glossy paper brochure with all the goodies that are available and they seem to be ready to sell an entire top-to-bottom system.

Now for the price. They were being coy about dollar figures, but I've seen suggestions that the basic camera in its 49 megapixel version, will be somewhere around $3K, going up from there for accessories, lenses, options, etc. There's going to be a lower pixel count version that's a little cheaper, but I can't see the reason for that since it's not that cheap (maybe $2700). It absolutely looks like a great piece of hardware if you have the bucks to support it and need that much quality. In my case, since the quality of the operator is already exceeded by the quality of my current camera, I'm going to assume that this can wait for a while. For equipment fans who like the Nikon brand, or for people that don't blink about spending thousands, it looks pretty good.

Panasonic promises a full frame professional camera in 2019 - https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/25/17897454/panasonic-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-photokina-2018

.....

"The image quality in the eyepiece is remarkable, much better than the mirrored-prism image in a conventional DSLR." Really? I find this curious because the electronic image is processed in some way as opposed to reflected light.

I guess in low light the electronic image would be brighter. Is that what you mean?

It's generally brighter. I saw it in daylight and appreciated that it was a crisp, bright image. I think the image is about 3K on the long side and the color rendition of the viewfinder, in my brief 1 minute session, seemed better than my old Nikon all-on-one superzoom. I don't have any particular problems with the optical image in my current DSLR but I like the idea of not having a mirror flopping around inside the camera, so this seems like a logical next evolutionary step compared to a design that dated to the film era, prior to digital displays. Camera fans tend toward being somewhat conservative about hardware and this camera gives them a familiar look, feel and usage while advancing the state of the art. I have not tried any of the other mirrorless cams (I'm not shopping for anything right now), so I can't compare, but this one looks pretty good.