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SharaLee Art

6 Years Ago

Repeat Infringements On Amazon

Does anyone know how to get a seller shut down by Amazon?

There is one seller in particular that keeps grabbing my images from my pop art dogs collection and placing them for sale on cheap pillows. I just checked today and he has another one up which makes the fifth time I’ve had to report him in December. It’s become a game to him/her, I think.

I thought after a few infringements Amazon deleted or at least suspended their account.

If anyone else here has dog art you might want to do a search on your name because this seller has over 10,000 items. Also cats, animals, fantasy, patterns, floral.

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Lois Bryan

6 Years Ago

my experience ... it's like whack a mole. they may get shut down or slink off on their own, but it seems like they come back under a new name (of course I can't prove that). pretty discouraging.

 

MM Anderson

6 Years Ago

I gave up on trying to get things taken down. The pillows are the worst infringements. My stuff from another POD gets routinely infringed, especially once it has sold. On the forums at that other POD one person has posted that when they recently sent a take down notice to Amazon the seller came back with a counter claim against them and Amazon told them that they would reinstate the infringed item if the artist/designer could not prove that they have filed a lawsuit against that seller, which is kind of difficult to do when they are in certain countries. I think it is a losing battle.

 

Joy McKenzie

6 Years Ago

SharaLee, some foreign seller currently has 9 of my pillow designs stolen from Razzle...even the images shown on Amazon are directly from that other POD. I got them to take one image down, because I thought there was only one. I subsequently found 9 more on that same seller's account. You can file a dmca (otherwise Amazon won't help you) for each infringement, which I also need to do. I think you can file multiple infringements on one dmca as long as they're found on the same seller's account. It's a PITA, but it's the only way Amazon will take any action.

Amazon, I'm sure, has rules about sellers' getting shut down, but I don't know what they are. Personally, I think even ONE infringement should be grounds for getting the account shut down.

 

Jim Hughes

6 Years Ago

IMHO it's hopeless until the DMCA gets replaced with something that makes sense... or until Amazon is somehow forced to care.

 

Mike Savad

6 Years Ago

i heard someone else reported an artist and the artist had their work taken down. and she can't put it back up unless she sues the other person who made the claim that stole her work.

as for you, you have to keep complaining. but if you can chase down that person and go after them with a lawyer and or a bill, that may help.

---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

Shelli Fitzpatrick

6 Years Ago

Since they passed that safe harbor law Amazon pretty much has no incentive to care anymore... the other POD mentioned above has a whole group of designers that have been to *ell and back trying to stop the theft of their designs and they keep finding them again and again.

I have only found a small handful of my own designs hijacked so far and not at Amazon yet, but after reading about the struggles of others I thought why waste time even looking for stolen designs if there is no recourse without spending thousands of dollars.

The only consolation is that the stolen images are so low res and poor quality for printing that hopefully the sellers get little to no repeat sales from them and lots of returns.

 

Ann Powell

6 Years Ago

I also have given up on trying to get my stolen designs off of Amazon. I send a DCMA notice once in a while, and they respond that they are removing it but it does not seem to do any good at all.

 

Jai Johnson

6 Years Ago

I gave up in 2014 with them. And I haven't shopped with Amazon since then either. Because ultimately, Amazon COULD do something about this if they choose -- and they choose not to.

 

Joy McKenzie

6 Years Ago

Amazon does respond to DMCAs, very quickly because you are essentially filing a legal document. Yes it's a pain to keep filing them, I agree with that. But until they come up with another way, this is the way we have to use. I've filed over 50 dmca's now over the past 3 years. I'm fed up too. But if you don't file dmca's when your works are found, I don't think any of us has a right to complain about it. We're not the only ones. Last time this exploded, the government got involved. So people can wait until that happens again, or until Amazon comes up with a new way to report infringements, or keep on filing dmca's. Those are the choices we have.

You can also write to Mr. Bezos: jeff@amazon.com ... I did. I do about 80% of my shopping online with Amazon my top site, am a Prime member, and have been making orders with Amazon since the beginning when they only sold books. I told Jeff all these things. Two foreign sellers were shut down, but they were repeat offenders, in that they put some of my images back up for sale, after Amazon removed them. I think that may be one of the criteria for ultimately getting kicked off Amazon. Again, I found those repeats, and re-reported them. I must have had a lot more energy for this crap back in 2015!


 

Bill Posner

6 Years Ago

If someone could send me a private message how you find your images on other sites, so I can look, I'd appreciate it. I'm not aware of any of mine.

 

Joy McKenzie

6 Years Ago

Just put your name, as you have it on your pod sites, into the Search. For Amazon, make sure the Search is set on 'All Departments'. Somehow the data from the other pod is embedded in my images. I don't find stuff from here though. It's all stolen from the other pod.

 

SharaLee Art

6 Years Ago

Thanks for your responses, everyone. From what I gather, Amazon doesn't care if your images are stolen, they just take them down when issued a DMCA. It would be nice if they would shut down and ban the IP address of the sellers. I did notice that the particular seller just opened up a new "ships and sold by" so maybe that's how they are getting around this.

I think I'm going to let this go for a few months, and place an order for one of "their" pillows. Once I receive it, I'm going to do a blog on the quality of it compared to FAA/Pixels and show what you get for $6.33. I'll also be able to leave a review on Amazon since I purchased the item. I'm tired of playing whack-a-mole with this seller.

I'm also going to get started (again) on copyrighting all of my images, and starting with the pop art dogs as that seems to be what is being stolen.

And I agree, Bezos COULD do something but he must not want to part with a penny of his now $100 BILLION.

 

Jim Hughes

6 Years Ago

Amazon makes money from these sellers.

Responding to artists' complaints would cost them money.

It's that simple.

 

Dan Turner

6 Years Ago

"From what I gather, Amazon doesn't care if your images are stolen, they just take them down when issued a DMCA."

That's what they're required to do, and that's all they're required to do.

It gets complicated, and Amazon's business is not he said-she said detective work. The merchandise, which is a *pillow* in this case, is not stolen (as far as they know). According to a future DMCA, the image *on* the merchandise may be an infringement. However, there may be no actual pillow with that image on it, at least not yet.

Amazon is obligated to remove the image from their site, no questions asked. If the seller files a counter notice Amazon is required to restore the image, no questions asked. IF they remove the seller over a DMCA they could find themselves liable for substantial damages. That's why they don't do it.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

Joy McKenzie

6 Years Ago

SharaLee, the items being sold with my images are pillow Covers. All my infringements over the years on Amazon have been covers. Don't know if this makes a whit of difference!... I suppose you could get a pillow "without insert" from here to make a more equitable comparison, if your images are being sold as covers as well.

 

Jim Hughes

6 Years Ago

The DMCA was written by lobbyists. Its intent was to protect big ISPs, and middlemen like Amazon, against complaining artists and photographers. It does this by putting an impossible burden on imdividuals who are content producers. It only works if you're Disney or Coka Cola.

I'm guessing Mickey isn't on any of these pillowa.

 

Peggy Collins

6 Years Ago

I've used the DMCA many, many times. It works just fine and Amazon takes the offending product down within a couple of days. However, another seller (or the same seller with another store name) often pops up with the offending product once again. So it's a matter of how much time you want to spend on such things. Personally I've gotten to the point where I'd rather spend my time creating new things.

 

Travel Pics

6 Years Ago

Are they making sales with low-quality images?

Some people worry too much about the little things in life.

◕‿◕

Michel
https://photos.travelnotes.org/

 

Janine Riley

6 Years Ago

The problem as I see it is: another is selling an inferior product attached to your name.

Consumer Joe does not care where he purchases it from, he does not know that the Pixels product is the original and far superior.
He just gets a piece of crap in the mail and decides he is never going to buy from that Artist again.

He may never know the original Artist's name - but with social media & Pinterest most of us are plastered all over.


Bill Posner - you can also do a Google Image search with your own image. Use the camera icon.
For those that have Google for their Homepage they can just Right click on an image to search.

 

Jim Hughes

6 Years Ago

Janine makes a good point. Amazon is flooded with junk products and should clean house.

 

Travel Pics

6 Years Ago

Janine,

Does Consumer Joe know the artist or is Exhibit A just trying to sell an image and Consumer Joe falls into bargain basement with eyes blind and hands tied?

If Consumer Joe buys an inferior product from Amazon, then hopefully only Amazon suffers.

As it should be. Then, and only then, might Amazon (and others like them) worry about what people are selling 'in their name'.

 

Dan Turner

6 Years Ago

"The problem as I see it is: another is selling an inferior product attached to your name."

Over the years I've seen artists completely come apart over inconsequential infringements. They imagine their reputation is ruined. But seriously, look at the designs on your own bedspreads, paper cups, throw pillows and shower curtains -- who is the artist?

Have you ever thrown out a cheap pillow purchased from Amazon, Sears, the country store or a neighbor's garage sale? Did you blame the artist?

Unless people are purchasing directly from the artist to specifically get that artist's work, they have no idea who the artist is. Thus, zero damage to that anonymous artist's reputation.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

Jim Hughes

6 Years Ago

Who are these people buying cheap-looking pillows, anyway? I don't know any.

And no one has bought a mouse pad since the Clinton years.

 

Travel Pics

6 Years Ago

I've sold mouse pads... but not on Fine Art America (nor Amazon).

Is Clinton a cheese?

 

Jim Hughes

6 Years Ago

They bought the mouse pads thinking they could resell them on Amazon. :-)

 

Janine Riley

6 Years Ago

Honestly, I would have no knowledge on whether Consumer Joe likes to fall blindfolded with his hands tied behind his back.

And I certainly hope none of my friend's are the cheap pillow purchasers. But what do they know........

I still have friends and neighbors who think all of Fine Art's products - are in my basement. Can't get it through their heads.

EDIT. Some Artists only sell through FAA/Pixels.
For those that sell through several sites - a follower could certainly accidently purchase an inferior product from a knock-off site.

 

Peggy Collins

6 Years Ago

I sincerely doubt that any buyer is looking at the artist's name or that they're even aware of it. They may take note of the seller's name, however, if they are unhappy with a purchase.

As it is, a lot of buyers still believe that they're actually buying a product from Amazon itself, not from individual sellers.

To answer Travel Pic's question, no, I don't believe they're making sales with these low-quality images so it doesn't even matter.

Save yourself some stress and pick your fights wisely!

 

James McCormack

6 Years Ago

Peggy is right - pick your fights wisely.

Just found some of my paintings (FAA watermark and all, and some low res Twitter images) on http://www.vivowallpaper.com .
Sent them a message but its not worth a fight.

 

Joy McKenzie

6 Years Ago

Peggy, on Amazon, they don't use the artist's name in the description of the product. They're dumb, but not that dumb. There is image data embedded into the product images on Z, so that's why you can find stuff when you do a search using your name. They usually use the exact title from Z as well. I have no clue about other pods and how/if they embed data.

Also, in the dmca, you don't just tell Amazon "hey the image on this page belongs to me". You have to provide an outside link to where you're selling the image. Difficult for these fly-by-night companies to come back with a counter notification. In the 50 or so dmcas I've filed, I've never had someone counter even one of the dmcas. You can provide links to ALL the image pages on pods you sell that design on. Too much info is better than too little.

 

Ann Powell

6 Years Ago

I have often wondered if these sellers would actually even send a product because I do not believe they would produce an actual pillow cover or iphone case for the price the list. Is it a bait and switch altogether , or a total scam possible?

 

Peggy Collins

6 Years Ago

"Peggy, on Amazon, they don't use the artist's name in the description of the product."

Right, so there's even less reason to get in a huff about it.

"Also, in the dmca, you don't just tell Amazon "hey the image on this page belongs to me". You have to provide an outside link to where you're selling the image. Difficult for these fly-by-night companies to come back with a counter notification. In the 50 or so dmcas I've filed, I've never had someone counter even one of the dmcas. You can provide links to ALL the image pages on pods you sell that design on. Too much info is better than too little."

Yes, I know...in the past I've filed hundreds of DMCAs against Amazon. That's why I now say it's pretty much a waste of time. I don't believe those sellers were selling any of their crappy products. In my case it was mostly phone cases and mouse pads (a few years ago).

Apparently sellers no longer can get a free 30-day trial for a sellers account. They now have to pay $30/month for a professional account. That should cut down on the fly-by-nights and scammers.

@Ann, I think it's a bait and switch. They hope to get orders that they never fulfill, then close up shop, only to open another one. I think that's the way it works.

 

Dan Turner

6 Years Ago

"Yes, I know...in the past I've filed hundreds of DMCAs against Amazon. That's why I now say it's pretty much a waste of time."

Listen to Peggy and learn from others who have been there. Life is too short to learn everything the hard way.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

 

Janine Riley

6 Years Ago

James is right - with all the Wallpaper and Scraper sites - it could become a full time occupation filling out DMCA's.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

6 Years Ago

It's hilarious, what I find when I search for my own name on Amazon & other places.

Not the infringed art, the books and other stuff that have nothing whatsoever to do with me. Life is a bizarre place.

 

CHERYL EMERSON ADAMS

6 Years Ago

I'm also going to add that I agree with James and the others who said: "Peggy is right - pick your fights wisely."

Not all infringements are created equal.
Not all take-down notices are created equal.

My approach to battles is I don't start them unless I intend to win them. I know I can't win them if I don't have the time / money / placement on the chessboard / other resources to win them.

I don't know much about what Amazon does about infringements -- that's Amazon's problem. I do know that it's probably not a good plan for Amazon, or any other online marketplace to ignore take-down notices. Bottom line, though - as most of us probably already know -- U.S. law makes it the copyright holder, or trademark holder's (that's the artist, usually) problem to pursue infringement actions, and defend against frivolous or nusiance take-down notices.

I also know that sending take-down notices is work -- and following up is work. So also is contesting frivolous or nusiance take-down notices.

My approach would be to not send take-down notices to every copycat I can find on the internet, unless I were going to follow up on all of them. Same thing with frivolous / nuisance take-down notices.

I would not pursue everything, that would spread my resources too thin. I would think through what it would take to win before I even got started. I would figure out which one(s) are worth bothering with, and which one(s) are winnable, and I would pick one or two (or as many as I could reasonably handle) of them to pursue, aggressively. Once I started something, I would keep at it until I won, or at least drew as much blood as I could.

As far as "whack-a-mole" infringement is concerned, there are usually ways to show a court your record of a person's intentional repeated offenses, and get more relief based on the pattern than you could get based on single, isolated causes of action. Yes, you probably need a lawyer to help you with a case of that nature, but it can be done. Depending on the situation, you might also be able to team up with other artists, and bring a case as a group, if you're all being victimized by the same party in the same way -- that might be of more interest to a plaintiff's lawyer than isolated small-potatoes infringement cases.

Usually, your first step would be to create a record of infringements (or nuisance notices, or whatever it is they're doing). Write down dates, parties, who said what to whom. Obviously, you need to be complete, accurate, and keep the emotional stuff out of it... it's just the facts.

Disclaimer: As always, not legal advice.



 

Linda Woods

6 Years Ago

Heads Up Artists! A seller on Amazon is selling products with 34 images of my art and more art that looks very familiar to me. The seller is "happyeating" and sells insulated lunch bags. Go take a look and see if your art is being used, too. They are using images titles straight from our own descriptions. I filed complaints on all of my images.

 

This discussion is closed.