Horoscopes Or Horrorscopes?

Good morning Marlene.
My sign - is Cancer ( sniff sniff ....)

Moody, emotional, hyper sensitive to other's needs, loyal , devoted - & one hell of a bite .
Drawn to the Sea, and yes, we tend to walk crooked.

Virgo as well.

Astrology is one of the best examples of that human logical mistake of thinking that, if B happens after A, then A must have caused it. Astrologers are one of the best examples of propagating broadly ambiguous predictions and then claiming success with specific events...they make a living as artists of BS. As a soothsayer once told an ancient world king - "If you launch this war, a great empire shall fall". The king, in his arrogance, thought it was the other empire that would fall, but it turned out to be his.

DO you identify with more of the strong characteristics or the 'challenges'?

Doug....at least they make a living as artists!
::::ducking:::::

Ronald,
I think there are a lot of Virgo artists....seems like a good fit

Pisces here.

I think the stars do affect us. I know for a fact that the moon has a huge effect on people. I often work with...or more accurately, around...whatever the current moon phase is, and it's effect on me.

Andrew,
I've been told by medical professionals that emergency rooms are completely insane when the moon is full. Makes sense to me...if the moon can affect our oceans, why not our bodies that are like 80% water as well?!

Exactly, Marlene.

I tend to have a lot of energy during the full moon. I need less sleep, I'm more creative, and I really clean up the to do list. With the new moon, I'm a lot more insightful and tend to be a lot more productive in terms of mental energy.

The first and last quarters tend to be more of a time to input things in a more passive fashion, and let thoughts and ideas incubate. I have a lot less patience with things I'm working on during those phases.

Makes sense to me, since Pisces is a water sign....

Sagittarius here. My husband is a Virgo. We've been married nearly 46 years so I'd say we're compatible.

I do read the horoscopes occasionally but don't place much stock in them.

Being a Sagittarius, it says I speak my mind and honesty is the best policy. I do agree with those characteristics. In fact, I've gotten myself into hot water sometimes. I recall one co-worker being upset with me because I didn't like those silk scarves women wore as decorative clothing. She wore them all the time and took my statement to heart. It seems all so silly now that someone would be offended by that.

I am a curious sort and a bit of a Pollyanna. I do try to find the good in people instead of focusing on the negative.

Interesting thread, Marlene. Thank you! Congratulations on your sales and upcoming work.

Any position of a star in the universe is constantly changing relative to the position of the earth. Besides that saying that constellations or positions of constellations determine our lives or any outcome of our lives is illogical. It shifts a portion of blame or responsibility on quasi religious beliefs.

The full moon makes my blood boil...


it was the Babylonians that came up with the idea 2300 years ago that the gods lived among the stars
and were able to impose their will on humanity by controlling the destinies of individuals and nations...
So they cut the sky into twelve pieces while still living on their flat earth...

The stars impel – but do not compel.

Though we are made of 65% water, and subject to the subtle influences of planetary geometry, we are also beings of free will. Thus, as with any influence, be it human or cosmic in origin, we can make choices, and need not be slaves to the lowest common denominator.

Fatalists would argue otherwise, but they have renounced their free will (and have done so using their own free will, curiously enough).

I'm no fatalist, in fact, being a rational empiricist, I take the road that that only planetary influences I worry about would be collisions between them and that's low on the scale of likely risks. When I pick hamburgers VS hotdogs for lunch it ain't because of the alignment of Jupiter and Sirius.

I believe in astrology a little bit. For instance, Mercury went retrograde starting April 9th and will last until May 3rd. Things sure have been screwing up for me a lot lately.That's supposed to affect everybody though.

I'm an Aries, right on the cusp of Taurus. I usually read both horoscopes and instantly forget them. I had my chart done many years ago and discovered that I have a grand cardinal cross...planets are directly opposed to each other. Basically it means that you feel pulled in both directions and I'd say that's definitely true for me most of the time. It's hard for me to make decisions.

Congratulations on your streak of good fortune, Marlene!

In an experiment, French Astrologer, Michael Gauquelin, offered free horoscopes to any reader of Ici Paris, if they would give feedback on the accuracy of his supposedly “individual” analysis. He wanted to scientifically test the profession of astrology. However there was a trick... he sent out thousands of copies of the same horoscope to people of various astrological signs and 94% of the readers replied that his reading was very accurate and insightful.

What they didn’t know was that the horoscope was that of a local mass murderer, Dr. Petiot,
who had admitted during his trial that he had killed 63 people.

Its clearly a case of subjective validation where subjects focus on the hits of some general analysis that’s supposed to be unique to them.

A bit of trivia...for those of you who use the phrase "Mazel Tov" for congratulations ( it has worked it's way into colloquial English), please know that it means that your stars are well aligned!

For the record - I do not read my Horoscope. A very rare occasion it is that I will peek - & I then don't like myself for doing so.

I do not want to make my decisions affected by another's predictions , whether consciously - or subconsciously.

I base my decisions on a list of facts - with a great big dollop of gut instinct .

Mazel Tov can mean "Good (Fortune) Luck" or "best wishes". It does not mean your stars are well aligned. You might be confusing that with "Mazzaroth"

Astrology is nothing more the the Barnum (Forer) Effect in action. Yet many people love to believe in this c__p as it gives the impression that there is some influence impacting their own decision making.

The gravitational effect of my "ruling planet" (which was only discovered half a century or so before I was born, and, ironically, is no longer a planet) at the time of my birth was significantly less than that of the maternity team standing nearby. Perhaps we should ask these teams to arrange themselves in a pentangle around the birthing stool in the woods?

I have to also question why would the moment of birth be the defining point for astrological divination (other than convenience)? Would it not be more "logical" for the stars to influence the teeny weeny sperm and ovum at the point of conception rather than a hulking great neonate?

Let's talk about homeopathy next, oh and BTW, the moon is not a star!

~Richard
reevephotos.com

Tony,
The phrase has a Kabbalistic origin and it's modern meaning uses it for good luck and best wishes, but that is not the origin.
Ya gotta trust me on this one.
**The question marks are compliments of faa/pixels software.**

Mazal Tov is an expression used when offering congratulations or wishing good luck.
A more significant message is revealed by delving into the meanings of the word mazal.
The most common definition of mazal, is an �alignment of stars.�
Each of us in born under an astrological field with a particular energy flow.
Our mazal determines personality, circumstances and potential�our destiny.
The Jewish people believe that we can transcend our destiny. As referenced
in the Torah, G-d lifted Abraham above the stars and changed his destiny.
Another meaning for mazal is a�drip from above.� Our tradition
sees our mazal as the influence of the stars trickling down on us.
The mystics have yet another meaning. It is said that our soul, our mazal,
shines like a brilliant star from above with only one ray inhabiting our bodies.
The visual expression of Mazal Tov combines all of these meanings.
The top of the painting shows the heavens filled with stars that are
shining and trickling downward. The main orb, symbolizing our soul,
emits an orange ray into the largest circle, representing our physical body.
Destiny is represented by the silver bar. As it travels through the stars,
the upward movement expresses the concept of transcending one�s destiny.
The design highlights the juxtaposition of the down and up movements.
When we offer a Mazal Tov, we evoke the energy of the cosmic field to channel blessings.
When heaven and earth meet and blessings abound, our destinies can be transcended.

.

A mechanical universe is the hand of God.

I am being polite Marlene by not making this a religious debate which I would win. Original meanings are not determined by colloquial usage.

A fun and interesting thread topic, Marlene!

I believe in a lot of impossible things, but astrology is not one of them.
Still, I like admitting I'm an Aries . . . and that I'm made of stardust! :-)

When we are still using Hebrew words, they are, Tony.
Say what you like about other languages, but Hebrew is a concept language, depending heavily on root words. That doesn't change.

Moving right along....for those who place no credence in the planets and their influence, is following a solar and/or lunar calendar problematic?

Aries of course......

I had the experience years ago of reading the horoscope to a Somali woman every day. She was working in a coffee shop in my home town. She was picking up English at an incredible rate. She could not fathom the meanings of the horoscope page in the newspaper. She was 25 and I was 33. I was in love with someone else....pure nonsense because that woman was not talking to me. Years later she(Fahia spelling?) and I considered dating. But we were rarely seeing each other because I had moved towns. She was studying to be a doctor, using all of god's hours.

There was the added layer that she was Muslim and forbidden to marry outside of her religion. We never got that far though. She was possible very mixed about her religion, but not as a person mixed in her feelings and moods or thought at all.

Dave

Following any calendar is problematic. Unless I'm punching a time clock for $/hour, time is just one of those things I 'do' because everyone else insists on it.

I hear ya, Wendy...I live between two conflicting calendars, one that adjusts every 2-3 years and has a 'leap month.'

The other day, I wrote a check and dated it 1972...have no clue why except that I'm getting old...it certainly was one of the worst years of my life, not to ever be repeated!!


By the way, I understand you have a birthday coming up soon....pick a date, any date. lol

Horoscopes I pay no attention to, other than the characteristics of the signs and people I've know that it appears to fit, myself I'm of the sign Aquarius . Other than that I think it's hocus-pocus and I am not superstitious. However I do believe in forces unseen that are not of a friendly nature which I stay clear of.

Love your time warp, Marlene! If that happened to me, I'd still be buried in mounds of esoteric research -- trying to figure out why? Yes, my mind is a terrible thing!

The birthday, like all those before it, has come and gone; someone had to call and remind me. Pesky calendars! ;-)

Wendy,
I think I might have to do a little time warp dance aka Rocky Horror!

I have no trouble following a solar or lunar calender…even the plants do that!

Astrology was huge during the Renaissance. Perhaps it is like an old religion that people say "it doesn't make sense", but believe in it anyway. Maybe that's a good thing.

Taurus lady.

*wink*

It doesn't make sense especially when people try to "scien-tize" it by citing things like gravitational fields and orbital rotations. If one star or planet lines up with another, in terms of the field influence on a human, the cement truck that just went by on the road did a million times more to influence a person's gravitational "fields". In addition, "alignments" mean nothing except that you happen to have both objects in the same part of your visual field. The same thing happens when the house across the street blocks your view of the neighbor's swimming pool....that's an alignment too, but I don't see prophets getting all mysterious about how that influences our fates.

Am I the skeptical curmudgeon? Yep and proud of it. I get up in the morning and don't care how my stars align, whether Jupiter passes Venus or whatever. Truthfully, I really don't understand how anybody can believe that stuff.

"for those who place no credence in the planets and their influence, is following a solar and/or lunar calendar problematic?"

Nope. The solar calendar we live by is based on the rotation of the earth around the sun relative to the earth-axis spin. That's just a mathematical ratio (which is changing slightly). It takes approximately 365.25 earth rotations to go round the sun once. Hence the leap year every 4 years, as near as we can get.

This has nothing to do with astrology - other than the fact that Sol, our star, obviously is directly responsible for maintaining our existence...

~Richard
reevephotos.com

Oh, by the way my "star sign" is "Scientist"

On those rare occasions when I see a "horrorscope" I usually get a good laugh - never have known one to even be close to accurate. So, I find them funny to say the least. I once started to go see one of those 'palm readers', you know, to check out my future, the first thing she asked - did I have an appointment and what was my name. I just turned around and left. She should have known I was coming and what my name was without asking. LOL

I think the monkey is in conjuction with the goat this year of the turkey.

Virgo - but many virgo characteristics don't fit me

My wife and I are both Scorpios, but do not pay attention to horoscopes, or anything related to alignment of the stars. :)

My mom was a very good astrologer. She took a class in 1979 or 80 and really immersed herself in learning the subject. This was when you had to do serious math to layout a natal birth chart, which you can get online now but at the time, it could take hours to do it properly. It is science based, whether anyone here believes that or not, I don't really care. She never believed in astrology being an 'excuse' for how one was or for what was going on, more that it was a way to help someone understand themselves, a relationship or life experiences in order to improve and grow or how to best react to what is going on. She quit doing charts after the last couple of people just would not get on board with astrology as a tool to help them to grow, when they just wanted it as an excuse for how things were.

Reading a horoscope in the paper is little more than entertainment. I don't consider it a fair judgement on the art/science of astrology if that is all you are looking at. Just reading about your sun sign doesn't cut it.

Each planet and the sign it was in plus where the planets were (longitude and latitude) at the exact time you were born, combined with where they fall or not, in each 'house' (12 areas of interest) of your chart...makes up your unique natal birth chart. You have a rising sign (how people perceive you), moon (emotions etc), mars (energy), venus (love, relations), so on and so forth...each of these interact with each other and the houses and the influence of any of these aspects with each other and where the planets are at any given time...affect you in subtle to more dramatic ways.

Don't diss based on a newspaper post. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more involved than that. Don't believe it means you have no control either, that is stupid and not in the true spirit of what astrology can do. Also, just like any other profession or skill, some people are better than others. Just because you got a bad haircut doesn't mean all hair stylists are bad, same with astrology.

Can't express my feelings on the horror of "horrorscopes" without getting into religious reasons.

Melissa,
Thanks for your comments. I recall doing my natal chart by hand...I had a great book to guide me...you are right...it took hours!! Thanks for adding to the other side of the discussion.


Greg....I pay attention to scorpions. OO!

Melissa, thanks for the explanation and information! I've always liked being a Gemini, because it explains why I feel like two people being tugged in opposite directions. Whatever is true about me, the opposite is also true. I can argue one side and then go argue the other. My mother was also a Gemini, but she wasn't like me, at all. Even though there is some science behind it (if I understand correctly), for the rest of us, it's probably just seeing what we want to see. I'm fine with that!

Aries. That is until recently when NASA discovered something, a new zodiac sign, and is now saying I ... ME ... I ... am a Pisces. WHAAA???

http://www.parentherald.com/articles/75665/20161019/new-zodiac-signs-update-13th-ophiuchus-nasa-major-changes-check.htm

Seriously? You're going to tell a life-long Aries that she's now a Pisces????? No no no no no ...

* thud *

OMG, Lois! You just fainted!!
Be an Aries and be proud.
They can't be changing the rules or taking planets away whenever they feel like it.
I said so.

Hell, I've been a Virgo, the virgin, all my life!

My take on the stars affecting my life: They affect my life. They make the sky beautiful at night. They're useful for telling time, and for navigation. Without sunlight from our nearest star, I would probably not exist, and the moon wouldn't look so luminous. Someday stars may be a useful power source for spaceships -- I mean, the stars other than the sun -- we already use the sun to power the gadgets we launch into space.

Astrology? Ahem.
Sorry, but there are only 12 months in the year. If you divide the entire world population by 12, that's an awful lot of people who have the same horoscope -- all people born in the same month can't possibly be that homogeneous a group. It's still a pretty big number if you do it by birth date, that's 1365th of the entire population having the same horoscope.

Astrology is useful for providing an excuse to be arrogant. I can't help it, I'm a Leo. It's my destiny to be that way.

Cheryl,
Natal charts are done sometimes down to the second....so the odds of tons of people having the same alignments is waaaay less.
My Honey and I were born within the same 21 hour period yet our charts look nothing alike.

I'm a Virgo, and I was also born in the Chinese Year of the Horse. So that's why I have an affinity for unicorns. Virgin+horse=unicorn. I've been intrigued by them since I was a kid. I liked unicorns before unicorns were cool.

I think people like astrology because it connects them with the universe; also, it tells them that their birthday has significance. I like horoscopes if they're truly mystical and applicable, rather than lame Dear-Abby-type advice.

"This was when you had to do serious math to layout a natal birth chart, which you can get online now but at the time, it could take hours to do it properly. It is science based, whether anyone here believes that or not, I don't really care."

"My Honey and I were born within the same 21 hour period yet our charts look nothing alike."

As I commented earlier why would the gravitational effect on a human being at the point of birth be so important? And when is that time point defined? Is it the precise split second when a newborn takes their first breath, opens their eyes, hears a sound outside the womb, or has his/her umbilical cord cut, or when their neonatal brain has reached a certain stage to be self aware (still in the womb)? Or is the planetary/stellar gravitational effect really most significant at the point of conception, or some other point in human development? It simply doesn't make any logical sense.

Astrology is no more science-based than many other "pseudo sciences." There is no objective, controlled, reproducible evidence that supports systemic scientific rationale for it. As far as I am concerned it is nothing more than a bit of fun, that people can use to excuse their behavior, rather than looking at the world rationally, or just accepting that stuff happens randomly sometimes. Just because it is shrouded in complicated math predicting planet paths makes no difference as it is entirely based on belief.

~Richard
reevephotos.com.

The "science" behind astrology doesn't even rise to the level of pseudo-science. I will admit that it's probably as close to reality as the flying spaghetti monster. One of the usual arguments is that we can't disprove it, but that can be said about pretty much anything and given that it's based on some sort of ancient babylonian incantations, I guess we can also revive sacrifices to Ishtar while we're at it.

::::mopping up the floor this morning from all the sarcasm::::::

Just saw a great meme that I have to clean up to post here:

Hide your kids
Hide your wife
Mercury is gonna mess with your stuff
Welcome to retrograde!

I remember reading an article some time ago about a researcher who tested the validity of astrology. He found that the only part of it that seemed to ring true were the personality profiles -the descriptions of typical traits of those who were Virgos, Capricorns, and so on. His research seemed to find those remarkably accurate. FWIW.

I present the theory that general characteristics can be attributed to the time of the year one is born.

It has nothing to do with the stars

But

It has to do with time of year of conception and the 9 month gestation period..

A person conceived in hot weather might very well be different from one conceived in cold weather

I'll leave it at that

I will go this far: sometimes it doesn't matter if you never see or understand a whole live dinosaur in your lifetime. If you find bits of skeleton, feathers, footprints, nests, etc. you can make some educated guesses about the existence of dinosaurs and what their world was like.

I'm not completely certain the idea that doing the math to create a start-chart is of zero predictive value RE: human behavior.

It could be like saying spells to create an ancient herbal remedy. If you follow the directions in the spell, you end up with a remedy that cures some things, some of the time -- maybe not everything they say it's supposed to cure, but even a placebo has some effect. The people who created the spell knew the directions worked, they just didn't understand the science behind why it worked. Chewing on willow bark helps with the symptoms of some kinds of headaches... because it has aspirin-like chemicals in it. So if you're told to play a song on a willow whistle when you have a headache, that's not necessarily totally bogus. You're not calling a healing tree spirit into your body... but it could help make your headache go away.

Astrology has amazing sticking power as a tool for organizing/understanding certain aspects of human behavior. So do the texts of many established major world religions. Despite my somewhat snarky earlier post, I'm not convinced astrology -- or any ancient time-honored source of wisdom -- should be dismissed as completely useless.

All Leo-ness aside, I don't think we moderns know everything there is to know. There is much yet to learn about ourselves and how the universe works.

Never underestimate the power of projection. It's humans that interpret astrological signs and we can be surprisingly perceptive, stars or not. Projection works with a lot of bogus methods, including starry conjunctions, including tea leaves and tarot cards and GOK what else. People that attribute "powers" to these things are not recognizing their own abilities, but vesting it in the cards or stars or whatever. The cards are just pieces of paper and astrological signs are made up pictures of old myths. It is interesting to go to a very dark place at night, look at the so-called constellations and try to figure out just who invented those pictures, like a water bearer or a bull. It took some imagination, but basing human characteristics on that? I don't think so.

Would someone explain to me why astrology is not a religion?

Because it's not a tax write-off?

Astrology is simply evidence of the Barnum (Forer) effect... that's not sarcasm...

The mumbo-jumbo associated with calculating gravitational forces exerted by distant objects (most of which we cannot possibly calculate, there being over 100,000,000,000 stars in our galaxy alone) is fascinating.

For the natal charts even the exact position in space and time of the neonate is not truly and accurately known (for example, is altitude included, to what level of accuracy are spatial coordinates measured, etc.), as all this would also have an impact on the infinitesimally minuscule effects in play. Even the positions of electronic machinery, all of which emit some electromagnetic waves which theoretically could impact "gravity waves", and surely weren't considered by "the ancients,' could come into play.

Astrology is nothing more than blind faith. Some believe, some don't but one thing for sure it ain't even vaguely scientific

As usual JMHO :D

~Richard
reevephotos.com

Excerpts from this page: https://www.astrologers.com/about/history

History of Astrology

Babylonian Beginnings

"The Babylonians are generally credited with the birth of astrology. Their astrological charts enabled them to predict the recurrence of seasons and certain celestial events. So in the beginning and for more than 2,000 years, astrology and astronomy were the same science.

Babylonian astrology was introduced to the Greeks early in the 4th century B.C. and, through the studies of Plato, Aristotle, and others, astrology came to be highly regarded as a science. It was soon embraced by the Romans (the Roman names for the zodiacal signs are still used today) and the Arabs and later spread throughout the entire world.
While earliest astrology was used to bring a sense of order out of apparent chaos, it was soon utilized to predict weather patterns, primarily for agricultural purposes. It was eventually broadened to include forecasts of natural disasters and war and other events in the course of human affairs. Amassing successes in these fields, it was a natural progression for astrology to be used as counsel for kings and emperors and, in time, for all of us."


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Astrology is an all-encompassing art/science which has far-reaching consequences in the lives of countless numbers of people worldwide. For centuries it has been respected, yet ridiculed in almost the same breath. We have only to turn to the authority of the Encyclopedia Brittanica, which defines astrology as a science: "The ancient art or science of divining the fate and future of human beings from indications given by the position of stars and other heavenly bodies."

An ancient art/science, astrology antedates all of recorded history. Its influence reaches back to the time when gods are said to have walked and talked with men. It was studied and practiced by all the great nations of antiquity and predates the sacred writings of nearly all religions and philosophies.
Astrology's supporters extend from Plato to Copernicus to Sir Isaac Newton to Flamstead (the great Astronomer Royal who helped to build the Greenwich Observatory) to former First Lady Nancy Reagan, as well as countless business and financial people and others."


Don't take this personally Doug and Richard, but I'd side with Plato, Aristotle and Sir Isaac Newton over you two every time...on a subject neither of you knows anything about, unless you have studied it and I missed that somewhere.

Melissa,

What else did the Babylonians have to do at night, but stare up at the 2 dimensional sparkling dome and ponder?

some very interstanding history linked to the Zodiac

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-israel/jewish-worship-pagan-symbols/


https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zoroastrianism

Roger, ha ha...I bet they found other activities in between star gazing.

Drew, interesting stuff, I only were slightly cross-eyed a time or two!

And so we are back to religion.

Just finished reading the article...and it's time to close this thread before it gets closed.
Enjoy Mercury in Retrograde everyone!