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Doug Swanson

6 Years Ago

Order Of Presentation In Contests

Looking at a few of the contests, it occurred to me that the big picture is that, in this contest, there were about 600 images and, so far, about a hundred votes, i.e., an average of 1/6 vote per image. It made me wonder what determines the order of presentation when people go to vote. If there are 25 pages of images, a potential voter might just get tired of looking after, e.g., 10 or 12 pages, so images that are down on page 25 just never have much of a chance. How do they get sequenced? If it's chronological, I'm guessing that you have a better chance if you post to the contest 5 minutes before it closes...at least you get seen.

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David Bridburg

6 Years Ago

uh hun

 

I can't get into contests that have endless pages of images. And if FAA is moving slowly that day...

I'm sure that a suggestive e-mail to the top will get immediate attention to this problem. Give it a whirl Doug.

 

CJ Anderson

6 Years Ago

Most of the votes come from members going straight to the LEADERBOARD and looking at the ones with votes already.

Those of us who run many contests have asked for the reverse to happen. Meaning that the first image submitted is the first to be seen when voting. The last one in is the last one seen. There is a gaggle of members, for one reason or another, who participate in every contest and wait til the last few minutes to enter. Guess they have nothing else to do but look at a clock waiting for some timer to go off.

Also, there have been contest admins that will send an email out to the participants and will add the link to VOTE which sends the email recipient to image #1. They need to be sending the link(s), in my opinion, to the contest OVERVIEW PAGE or IMAGES.

 

David Bridburg

6 Years Ago

Of course if someone sets up a contest and then posts to it, with the first in first to be seen it would favor the person setting up their own contest. The howls of wild dogs can be heard over that.

Dave

 

Peter Gartner

6 Years Ago

I would prefer a random rotation of all submitted images just before voting begins.

 

CJ Anderson

6 Years Ago

David, there are not many contest hosts that add their own images. But, I can see your point with "the first one in first one seen..."

Peter, yes, a random rotation would be the best bet.

Now, ya just need Sean's buy in to make these changes as groups and contest are not a priority with this site.

 

David A Litman

6 Years Ago

The contests are fun to participate in, and do increase the visits on those images, but are sales actually affected? Do buyers visit the contests? Do votes really improve your search results? Is there really anything more to it than "bragging rights"?

 

CJ Anderson

6 Years Ago

You're going to get different points of views with these questions, David. As a group admin I know for a fact that many of my members have sold after being in a contest (they didn't even have to win or place!) or featured on the homepages of groups. I know that I surely have. The increased visits to the contests will vary on the participants and the contest host. Again, I can only speak for myself and the contests I sponsor. I promote the submitted artwork on sm and I also promote the contest as a whole. I don't know if VOTES "improve the search results." "Is there anything more to it than "bragging right?" Yep. Potential sales!

 

Richard Reeve

6 Years Ago

@David L. I am pretty sure I recall one of the admins , Abbie or JC, stating that contest wins do have an impact on image ranking, although it is minor and only one of around 25 factors that are considered.

~Richard
reevephotos.com

 

David A Litman

6 Years Ago

Well, only 1 of 25 doesn't sound like much, but (potential) sales sound good to me. I must admit, I was surprised to learn that last image in becomes the first displayed. The other big issue, I would think, is the number of images per contestant. With 10 images each, it's very time consuming to get through the whole list, so most people likely don't.

 

CJ Anderson

6 Years Ago

David, never said first image in was the first to get seen. It was something that we admins discussed in the group we belong to.

 

Hey Doug! Unfortunately, the earliest birds entering a contest may not get seen, especially when there are a number of entries/pages to scroll through. That's why I always 'suggest' that members in mine go to the back pages to begin voting.

It's true that some will wait to the last minute to enter & other will re-enter their images just to get a spot on the first page or pages of a contest. Some vote only for their own entries & fail to support others. And, you are correct, some people simply tire out after a few pages & go to the leaderboard to vote. Too bad; they miss some great images.

Scrolling through the pages of thumbnails to vote in a larger contest is easier than looking at each individual entry via the 'Vote' tab, btw. At least for me.

 

CJ Anderson

6 Years Ago

Brooks, while scrolling through the pages of images and voting strictly by the thumbnail image, does not give a true indication of that entry being the best! There are thumbnail images that look great small and not so good in a larger format and the reverse is true, too!

If you're going to take the time to vote and do it right then it's got to be by looking at them one at a time. That's the correct and fair way to choose the winner(s)!

 

CJ, when you scroll through the pages & click on the images that attract you, they come up loud & clear.

In smaller contests it may work to view each individual entry, but in larger ones, like most of mine, it would take way too long. Especially seeing that I have seen most of them while tending & removing...and voting...and so on. Enough already.

This is simply 'to each their own'. I always do it 'right', btw.

 

CJ Anderson

6 Years Ago

Brooks, my stating "If you're going to take the time to vote..." was meant for anyone across the board and no finger was pointed at you.

 

You referenced my name in your comment under my post re, CJ. That's why I replied.

If you enter early, you get more 'exposure'. If you enter closer to the deadline of submissions, you might get more votes...IF your work is worthy. Either or.

 

David Bridburg

6 Years Ago

CJ,

..."the best...."

I do not think there is a best. I think the contest winners are not necessarily even in the running for the best at all. Winning a contest does not mean that to me.

Yes it is supposed to mean that, but in practice it really does not mean that. Only in theory.

JMO

Dave

 

I like to enter early, if possible. By doing so, my submitted image receives fewer votes, but gets many more views ... which is my primary reason for entering FAA contests.

 

Abbie Shores

6 Years Ago

I'm sure that a suggestive e-mail to the top will get immediate attention to this problem. Give it a whirl Doug.

We're not changing contests at this time. Please use the suggestion threads rather than send emails.

 

Doug Swanson

6 Years Ago

It's actually not a suggestion or something that I think requires attention. I was just curious when I was looking at a contest with a lot of images and got tired of looking at them and didn't finish. At that point, I still had about 10 pages to go and found myself muttering, "sorry guys, no votes today, too many pages". They must be sequenced somehow (or not) and my game-brain was wondering how to strategize an entry. Whether you enter for exposure or wins, the same question applies.

 

Inge Riis McDonald

6 Years Ago

Interesting read. I can't help but agree that this is a non-issue. We can all start voting anywhere in the line-up of participating images, and I am sure many, if not most of us do, if it is an issue for us. I don't think we are stupid!. If there are too many images to look at, it is possible to go back and vote in"batches" and enjoy the images. Yes, I acknowledge that time constraints lead voters to the leader board, but that is their loss. There are also at least one admin I know of who often votes only for his/her own image in contest he/she participates in. And there are admins who only let you participate in contests if you get a special invitation, often a reward for participating in discussions to promote their groups. There are also admin who ask group members for votes in private emails. One can go on and on. None of us are perfect!
Having said that. Brooks, you are truly a contest role model. I love your approach to them, and if the number of participants you get in your contests is an indication, I am not alone in feeling that way.
And there are so many (most actually) wonderful, hard-working and dedicated admins who are positive, kind and encouraging rather than negative and judgemental and controlling. Kudus the them. And hurra for our super patient Abbie. I don't know how you do it:). Thank you all for making FAA interesting enough that we all stick around for years.

 

Abbie Shores

6 Years Ago

:) praise always welcome!!

 

Wow, Inge, thanks for the shout-out! Appreciate it...and you.

Abbie rocks, I agree.

 

That was "tongue in cheek" Isabella F Abbie Shores FRSA...

Contests are basically the same as Groups in that they are used for dumping grounds by far too many people. Images randomly thrown into every group or contest without hesitation or concern for the administrator and focus of them.

I enter contests for the same reason as Wendy. I abide by the rules... unless I have an unfocused moment. Going back to view the entries to one contest is interesting because as a "photography contest" it may have almost as many paintings in it. If it is a "words on the image" contest, there are almost as many entries without words on it. I pity the poor contest administrator. And if the administrator has lots of qualifications for an entry... forget it. The lack of ability to concentrate on them runs rampant!

I just went to a contest that allowed 6 entries. It allowed a 6 vote limitation and had no stipulation not to vote ones own images. I always vote for my own first and then move on to others unless I'm asked not to vote for my own. If it was an open voting situation I would match my votes with 6 to others. So, I now have at least 6 votes. That may put me on the vote page so that I have a greater opportunity to be seen by a possible guest.

Anyhow... yes, use the suggestion thread.

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=3484731

 

Peter Gartner

6 Years Ago

I guess random rotation would be too difficult technically and require a lot of time to develop.

 

Doug Swanson

6 Years Ago

Random sorts are no more difficult than any other sort. Databases have functions specifically for doing that but, if you're hoping to get more views or votes from an image on a 50 page list of images, random would be harder to "game". The easiest would be the order in which contest entry happened. Depending on whether it's descending or ascending, you enter the contest either right at the beginning or as close as possible to the end.

 

Robert Yaeger

6 Years Ago

Hi Everyone,
If I am taking the time to vote, I will look at every image, however if there are a really high number of entry pages I may skip voting altogether. The longer a popular contest remains open, the more images it will receive. Perhaps a recommendation could be made to set a length of contest time that would produce a manageable number. Contests I have created have had a short submittal shelf life for that very reason.

I think having the ability to control the positioning of the thumbnail view by the artist would be a helpful option for making many images more attractive to the viewer. Some images may get skipped over, simply because the thumbnail image doesn't reflect the quality of the piece. This would apply not only to contests, but would be beneficial to each FAA artist the visitor that looks at their site.

To me, each contest is an opportunity to promote your work, and to discover another artist whose work I may find inspirational, influential, or simply want to see.

Cheers.

 

Hi Rob! Nice post.

Lately, I've been allowing my contests to remain open for as long as FAA rules allow so members get a chance to be seen by MORE people ~ visitors [potential buyers] patrons & fellow members.

For the longest time, I would only accept submissions for 5 days or less and allow voting for 2 or 3. Then, I realized, duh, if contests are a way to share our work & be SEEN, the longer one runs the better, which equals more exposure & more sales.

True, the longer a contest runs could amount to more entries, especially when a host allows members to post say 5 or more, up to 10, according to the FAA guidelines...and doesn't remove those that don't belong. If you limit participants to 1, 2 or 3 entries, you can keep the numbers down, making voting easier & not so much of a chore. Of course, the subject matter dictates the number of entries, as well. If it's a contest most people can enter, they will, as opposed to one that invites a more intimate grouping.

I find most people simply enter, vote for themselves and maybe go to the leaderboard to support others. When hosting, I look at EVERY entry [more than once]. When joining a contest & voting, I check the pages of thumbnails & vote for those that best fit the contest rules & description.

If more hosts would actually tend their contests by removing the entries that don't fit, there would probably be half as many to scroll through! Like my friend Mary said, "Some contests I scroll through have a lot of pure junk in them ~ badly cropped, crooked, blown-out images, faded, etc.".

Over & out. Have a great day!

 

Doug Swanson

6 Years Ago

Robert - Were I managing the contests, I'd have a random sort each time someone clicks on it so everybody in there has a reasonable and roughly equal chance of showing up at the top or bottom. I can't offer any evidence except my own fatigue, but it would not surprise me if it turned out that, if a contest always presents in the same sequence, the winners will be closer to the top. Even if you do go all the way to the bottom of the stack, the larger number of images you see, the less impact they have. In one of my former professions, among other things, I designed survey forms, and it was a known factor that, if you want a text question to get low response numbers, you put it at the bottom of the presentation, hence the dubiousness of "objectivity" in these things. Some people may be diligent and fair, but it's predictable that some are not, and so the numbers reflect that fatigue factor.

 

This discussion is closed.