Are You A Fine Artist?

I am both.

Commercial art has a client first, a deadline, a budget, a set of parameters and a 50% deposit. Then I create the art.

Fine art is created with no client, deadline, budget or front money. In other words, art for art's sake. A buyer might be found, but there are no guarantees on that front.


Dan Turner
Dan Turner's Seven Keys to Selling Art Online

I've been told I clean up quite nicely....thanks for asking!

No, I'm rather coarse.

I call myself a Post Contemporary Digital Fine Artist.

Hopefully it sells much easier than it is to write it each time.

I only believe in creativity. The rest is less important.

Dave

i'd say i'm pretty darn fine. maybe even better.


---Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

If you consider yourself to be a fine artist and someone referred to you as a commercial artist would that bother you?

No

It would not be correct, but no.

Of course when that happens I will demand pay.

Dave

Ron,

Along those lines, I could never be a factory painter. Someone filling in the spec to green....etc.....

My eyeballs would need plucking out.

Dave

I hope I am and also improving, as to refine the image is what I try to do.

I don't really like to be labeled, I never consider what type of artist I am, not prior to working on some creative project or after, I don't even consider the term artist.To me personally, the more labels that I create for myself the more I find it sets up limiting boundries that have nothing to do with the creative process.

I don't think anybody would ever mistake me for a commercial artist.

I don't really think of myself as being defined by labels. I'm fiercely non-conformist, and don't like to be boxed in.

I don't consider the photos that I capture to be commercial art, even though my primary intention when creating them is to sell them. I'd have to have a buyer commission them, and have them created on assignment to consider it commercial....in that respect...I consider my photography to be fine art, while not considering myself a fine artist.

I can assure you I feel fine about it too.

I have done art for pay - they're called commissions. But yes, I have been and am a fine artist - and a pretty fair photographer to boot.

Sure, why not!

And actually can be both, a Fine Artist AND a Commercial Artist, no conflict there. As Dan mentioned, one is under the direction of a client/Art Director and one, under my own direction, which seems to work most of the time.

Rich

Back around 1999-2000 ish I my digital art was on the box of Sapphire Graphics (I think 9200) video cards. They wanted me to do more but the compensation wasn't worth the 2 days of rendering + post work...

....'What are your thoughts and are you a fine artist according to your own personal definition.'...

If it could be said that I am an 'artist', then it [IMO] should not be necessary to predicate, that which is implied...Of course that is, in itself, an ideology I imagine. But from my own experience, the fact that 'art' and 'artist' are constantly subjected to predication has caused more problems than it has solved...

I cannot answer your other question about commercial from the reasoning above.

I am a fine artist. My degrees are in fine art.
I have never called myself anything but a fine artist since I began my career in 1971.
My business card reads: Marlene Burns, fine art.
and there ya have it

Your work is selling very well, you are making the big bucks. However through your explorations you start to produce works that either don't sell at all or barely marketable. Do you continue to pursue this direction since it seems to be the direction you feel your art should go or do you drop it and return to your previous type of work since that is where the money is?

Ronald you sure like to make a guy think, Lol! Knowing that once I accomplish something it's not unusual for me to lose interest or at least want to move on, I can confidently say that I would pursue the direction of what feels right and that may or may not be chasing the money, after all money is not everything.

Keep going in the new direction, Ron.
That is what an artist should be doing if they choose to be authentic and allow themselves to grow.

I see many 'fine artists' who cannot draw or paint and do not understand the basic principles and have to create 'high brow' descriptions to excuse their work.
I see many 'commercial artists' who understand the fundamentals with ease and produce fully professional standards of work to time and to deadlines.

If an individual only works with one medium
are they art literate? Do they truly have the credentials to define what is Fine? In any other field, they would be called specialists or technicians.

I can paint, I can draw, I can do 3D, matte painting and many combinations. I choose to be a wildlife photographer.

Drew,
It was sometimes very painful to become art literate!
My requirements included a year of each: sculpture,pottery, weaving, jewelry, photography, drafting, printmaking, enameling, shop work in metal, wood and vacuum form plastic. There were probably more that I choose to forget....and that was in addition to 4 years of drawing and painting in a variety of mediums and art history.OOps, almost forgot physics ( for color theory) and anatomy!
And that was just undergraduate.....

As I have always understood, a fine artist doesnt mean your the best, it just means you do it your way and make what you want. I do like the name though, Ill take it.

Yes. I might not be a successful one, at least not financially, but I am a fine artist.

No need to apologize Terrance, curiosity is a good thing! I'll stay into my projects ,at the moment it is making short films, I posted my playlist in another thread I started, again these short films were created without any guidance or prior video knowledge or experience, just what I picked up experimenting. The films were made without much thought and were somewhat spontaneous, much how I approach sculpting or painting and always following the same pattern of doing many successive works in a short period of time. There might be a system to the madness?. Here is my playlist if you care to view them, I would be most curious as to your feedback. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AthuAG8clAY&list=PL_OU-51Rwzlz7pymsKawKNwer5Pb_fmf_&index=20

Ants [anthropomorphic], of course would be favored, given my interests...But I will watch more later. Just the fact that you approach things from a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants attitude is interesting. To what avail any or all your explore might be; is poor of question, not important because you, in a way, have an intuitive notion that they all have to be done - even if the project is seemingly irrational.

You absorb knowledge because you recognize it in the moment.

I dare not say more, at this time; I think, or feel, that something 'might' cause the seemingly random trajectories to pattern but you are driving all of it - even reality. Preempting something that is gestating is not my shtick. Qualifying it in societal terms might be practical but by my own experience 'practical' also is a individuated truth.

Do you apply any of these to psychology? I know by writings of yours that you have several barometers [philosophy, theology, etc]. Midway through my own demarche I found it useful to know more about Jung's approach [that was itself a matter of 'meaningful coincidence' and intuitive suggestion] to the unconscious and creative process.That alone pointed me to most of the other vast courses of study that seem to constellate an ontological question...

Perhaps as time moves we will touch on much more...But I do not wish to hijack Ronald's threat...Others are still ringing in to the original question...

tdp

Thank you Terrance, it will take time to fully digest what you stated. Psychology, perhaps in a sense. I do place a lot of weight on the power of the subconscious mind. I agree, it's Ronalds thread, back to the consciousness at hand. :-)

The power of the subconscious and whether it has any barring on your work would make for an interesting thread in itself.

I have always been a fine artist. But accepting that about myself is not a battle I wish to re-ingage.

I absolutely consider myself a fine artist....

"Art was ultimately the thing that helped give me self worth. I consider myself to be an arts for arts sake advocate."

Art saves people, when nothing else can. I have seen that happen, over and over again. If there were no other reason for art to exist, that would be enough.

I yam what i yam.

I'm fine, how are you all today?

I'm fine as well, though I suppose it would be better to be great.

If I were capable of producing anything creative on a schedule, on time, under budget, to exacting customer specifications, it's likely that would be my job (instead of CAD) and then I'd consider myself a commercial artist.
Since my work is completely eclectic (short attention span r us) and sporadic until I have an inspiration or idea, I guess I have to consider myself a "fine" artist.
Does my work have commercial value? Each piece individually, probably. I mean, it's not offensive or anything, so it should appeal to a fairly wide demographic, I suppose. Does that make it commercial?

Sometimes it's difficult to fully comprehend another artist's train of thought, case in point would be with some of the comments by Terrance in this thread. Today however I was pleasently surprised when my wife brought me a package that the mailman dropped off. I wasn't expecting anything I ordered so the anticipation was even higher of what was in the large envelope.

A book titled Prologue to "The Nature that Loves to Hide" Imagery and Inspiration's Lore to Palenville the Gateway to the Kaaterskill Clove by Terrance J. DePietro. I have a feeling that I will certainly get a much better Idea of the meaning to some of Terrance's comments. I don't believe in coincidence, sometimes I can be dismissive of other's point of view especially if I view them as incomprehensible or if they are really different ideas than I normally entertain. It's human nature I think.

The book is full of visual imagery and I am looking forward to thoroughly reading and understanding it with the hopes of gaining a better understanding of the artist. Thank you Terrance, that a was a very kind,generous and thoughtful gesture.

Best-of-Life, Incommensurable Mario !!

As a photographer I never set put to be a fine art photographer. I never even gave it a thought and still don't wake up and say. "I am going to make some fine art today" I took my photos and made prints to show. People bought them. And bought them And bought them. After a while, with urging from my customers (it upsets some people when I say collectors), I decided to invest a few thousand in making many prints and getting a show tent to better show and sell. I was invited to jury in some "fine art shows" and not only got in but won awards. People were calling me a "fine art photographer." "Or a fine artist". It was never a label I put on me until I finally realized that this was the category that a lot of my admittedly photo-journalistic work fell into. I still consider myself just a photographer who produces work that is sold as fine art. I edit my images to be as photo journalistic as possible with only slight enhancing. Am I an artist? Yes. I create things with my camera that please me with an artful eye and as perfect as I can make them. No need for me to add the "fine" in there.

The first time I even heard the phrase used for photography. was when I was about a year into photography. I was in a camera club where we all did nature photos. A guy quit because he said we were all just nature illustrators and he was a "fine artist." I will always remember being so confused by that. Yet when at the urging of my mentors, I started making big prints, they always sold. So if I am an illustrator then, so be it. I am very happy with that.

At some shows there were those who would come around and see all my ribbons and awards and say, this is not "fine art". And I was ok with that. When I joined here I was just looking for someone to take orders, collect money, print and ship. At the time many were people very bothered by the question of who was a real fine artist and who was not. I guess it will always be a question for some.

People were calling me a "fine art photographer." "Or a fine artist". It was never a label I put on me until I finally realized that this was the category that a lot of my admittedly photo-journalistic work fell into.- Bradford

I find that humility is a far more important quality for an artist than any label one takes on.

Thank youTerrance! I do love that word, and if we had to choose any at all "Incommensurable" is the most appropriate word and most befitting for "All" those who create art, I like it much better than fine artist and it acknowledges the individualistic and subjective nature that the one creating the Art has.

Humility isn't sole and separate from defining what you are and what you do.

Marlene, I don't think I suggested humility was sole and separate just that it was an important quality for an artist, far more important than any label in my opinion.

Mario,

Humility is a tough balancing act....LOL

Seriously, it actually is a balancing act. Particularly for how someone portrays themselves. If the artist shies away from self promotion it hurts them. If someone overcooks their promotions it hurts them.

We used to have a saying in AA, the first person in the room to say they were humble was actually the least humble person in the room. Practicing humility and bragging about it for some folks who just found it in AA was kind of preachy. Those folks were not considered sober by the rest of us.

Dave

David, in marketing one's self I totally understand tooting ones own horn, the balancing act comes in when one is being introspective so as to not deceive one's self. Humility not so much for the benefit of others but one's self. I view the ability to create art as a given gift, not an aquired possession.

My wife says I am gifted and make the best meatballs in the world..............I then aim to please by cooking up a batch like I will be doing today, yes it's a balancing act being humble David. Lol!

I view the ability to create art as a given gift, not an aquired possession.

Mario,

You keep making that into an either/or. I do not think it is.

I fell into the arts by accident in college. As a very young kid into my twenties I was an incredibly imaginative kid, but my parents wanted me in engineering school.

I had zero intentions of becoming an artist. I was getting into my mid twenties working my way through art school.....just to graduate with top grades. Just to graduate. I loved the schooling. i graduated and went to work outside of the arts. No one takes a vow of poverty to become an artist in my family. The Irish had enough vows of poverty in our history.

I have been miserable not being an artist for close to 25 years.

My art reflects an acquired possession from my art school days. Yes there were plenty of students studying to be artists, my peers, at UCONN who were never going to cut it. And yes I constantly came back to my imagination. But I learned to draw in college at age 26 just before graduating. I learned to think in college.

Dave

Not so much either or David, I think we all have gifts that we must discover in our self's, that does not preclude one from cultivatioing those gifts once discovered. I did not discover I could create art until I was 48 years old, and yet I knew all along that I had a creative drive.

Actually, Mario, you made the distinction between humility and having a 'label.'

If you say so Marlene.Labels are meaningless to me, just like degrees. I already stated my position, I don't expect to change anyone's mind who feels or believes different. I get along just fine in the walk of life not using or needing any crutches or labels,or list of rules, the feeling of limitlessness is phenominal. Time to make some meatballs now,no recipe, just instinctive. :-)

Agreeing with both of the last posts......

Dave

I don't define myself, I just do what I like. Probably why I still have a day job, lol. :)

Robert,

Take doubt into account and then let it go. I like your work a great deal.

I have a day job. My goals are longer term. I do not need money now, I need it later in life.

Dave